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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Greta Thunberg IWD tweet "people oppressed because of gender"

117 replies

HelenaRavenclaw · 08/03/2022 18:31

Shame on Greta Thunberg! Literally removing women from International Women's Day! How about "WOMEN are still being oppressed...for their SEX"?

Greta Thunberg IWD tweet "people oppressed because of gender"
OP posts:
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 10/03/2022 22:49

Greta's main thing is climate. Which is fair enough. Greta is also a very young woman who hangs out with a crowd who are TWAW and has (judging from what cross my twitter timeline) friends who identify as trans. Even if she didn't believe TWAW, she would then promptly realise it was say TWAW, or lose all support from her former allies for her cause of preserving the planet! That crowd is big on political purity, and they'd rather see the world burn than help a GC feminist save it!

I have little interest in condemning her, especially as I was TWAW as the same age. I regard it as a religious/philosophical belief and she has the right to hold it. As far as I know, she's not abusing me for my beliefs, so why should I abuse her for hers?

ApplesinmyPocket · 10/03/2022 23:55

She supports what transgender people and their allies, including me, consider to be transgender rights

Please, @DadJoke, I would really like to know what those are. I'm not your enemy, I don't remember ever seeing your name before.

And I'm no expert on this stuff but it seems to me when TRAs talk about 'transgender rights', they don't mean rights like not being discriminated against for employment, housing etc, which everyone , even Smile GC feminists would support. They seem to mean 'rights to enter spaces historically reserved for women, because although my body is male, inside my head I believe I'm a woman.'

MangyInseam · 11/03/2022 02:43

@JohnMcCainsDeathStare

I think it was on IFLS Science but sexologist suspect that most women are actually on the gay/asexual spectrum rather than heterosexual.

We lost so much data when the Berlin Institute of Sexology had is library burnt by the Nazis - that is the iconic video of burning books often associated with Nazi history.

I think that's an unlikely hypothesis.
MangyInseam · 11/03/2022 02:45

It would really be more surprising if GT didn't support the idea of TWAW, given her age and political views. I'd be surprised if she thought anything outside of the liberal-progressive handbook.

Laniania · 11/03/2022 02:59

God forbid we fucking celebrate anything, eh.

AnnihilatePutin · 11/03/2022 05:15

This reply has been deleted

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VitalsStable · 11/03/2022 06:10

And this is why we don't listen to children with no life experience.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 11/03/2022 07:58

Annihilate

Read A Woman in Berlin by a woman who was there when the Red Army occupied it. That might give you a clue why they're fleeing, and being evacuated.

Would you stay for the opportunity to be raped repeatedly, if it were you?

I have the book on my bookshelf, if anyone needs it. The passage where the author records a Russian soldier forcing her mouth open so he can spit into it is particularly awful.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 11/03/2022 08:04

I agree apples

And like many i have the biggest issue with self id and men taking advantage of it

KittenKong · 11/03/2022 08:13

My issue is that someone male can self ID in the basis of belief and everyone is supposed to accept this, no questions. They may gain access to womens, places spaces and races. Feted and complimented, told they are wonderful.

However women who disagree - threats, bullying and attacks are all hunky dory. Men who disagree don’t get this so much.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 11/03/2022 08:29

Oh and before anyone says that was a one-off atrocity, it is known that British soldiers 'liberating' France raped French women at the end of that war.

On pornhub and similar sites, men are searching for "Ukrainian girls". That means they're thinking about women being the victims of rape as a weapon of war, and looking for uploaded videos of it from soldiers with camera phones.

This is a post from a woman in France who was born in Kherson, Ukraine, and still has contacts there.

🆘🆘🆘 #Ukraine Depuis hier, j'ai commencé à recevoir des messages de ma ville natale de #Kherson selon lesquels plusieurs femmes et jeunes filles ont été violées par des soldats russes. Aujourd'hui, l'administration de la ville a demandé aux femmes de ne pas sortir dans la rue..

twitter.com/femeninna/status/1499744027486339072?t=qgrf8-93yLm7LFZvpUYbvw&s=19

Translation:

Since yesterday I have been receiving messages from my hometown of Kherson that several women and young girls have been raped by Russian soldiers. Today, the city administration has asked women not to go out into the streets.

SamphiretheStickerist · 11/03/2022 08:31

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Greta's main thing is climate. Which is fair enough. Greta is also a very young woman who hangs out with a crowd who are TWAW and has (judging from what cross my twitter timeline) friends who identify as trans. Even if she didn't believe TWAW, she would then promptly realise it was say TWAW, or lose all support from her former allies for her cause of preserving the planet! That crowd is big on political purity, and they'd rather see the world burn than help a GC feminist save it!

I have little interest in condemning her, especially as I was TWAW as the same age. I regard it as a religious/philosophical belief and she has the right to hold it. As far as I know, she's not abusing me for my beliefs, so why should I abuse her for hers?

This. Every day, all day long.

I may find it hard to understand why, but that is a product of my having aged. I do remember being that young and holding all sorts of sanctimonious beliefs, chaining myself to fences, being obnoxious.

And it hasn't been that many years since I too would mutter TWAW to be polite.

I will question her ideology, wonder at the reasons behind her actions, but will put it down to her being young. With years, and the care of people who actually like and love her, she will grow up, like the rest of us. She may then do as I do, and blush at some of her early life exploits!

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 11/03/2022 08:48

@JohnMcCainsDeathStare

Maybe you should hop over to the Neurodiverse MN board - we're a friendly bunch and you might learn something new. Be respectful, no shitposting and remember:

No about without

Thanks for the invitation, but this autistic woman has pre-emptively given up on such places as she is sick of being told to piss off for being GC. Grin
DdraigGoch · 11/03/2022 14:25

so how is it reinforcing patriarchy? I thought that patriarchy hated people being people - they need boxes and heirarchies even when you don't need them.

The patriarchy "puts women in their place" by enforcing unnecessary social segregation. Men do masculine things, women do feminine things etc.

Over the 20th Century, women liberated themselves of these norms, and now the patriarchy has responded by deciding that the norms still apply, but that you can redefine yourself to fit into those barriers instead of breaking through them completely. So a woman who does masculine things is now considered to be an honorary man instead of a woman who plays football. Likewise - according to the new diktat - a man who likes knitting is an honorary woman.

So if women are told that they're not proper women if they don't sit at home to get their husband's tea ready - and effeminate men are told that they aren't proper men - the alpha males can continue to sit on top.

All very regressive. And preys on the vulnerable by telling them that they can solve all of their problems by coughing up a few grand to remove some body parts.

JohnMcCainsDeathStare · 11/03/2022 18:40

I do think that there are extremists amongst TRAs in that most gender dysphoria does resolve itself without hormones/surgery and that some people have transitioned by mistake - I have now-ex friends who disaggreed about that!

There is also the issue that autistic girls are vulnerable to being classified as transboys even when they aren't and that caution is required when dealing with a trans puberty.

But smoke and mirrors does not work, neither does vitriol and not having empathy. I am super GC since it was a blight on my childhood yet I am also a trans ally since trans people will still exist even if gender was purely up to individuals. I'd have had an easier time of it if I could have been able to ID as non-binary or asexual because I really did not feel female really until my late teens, yet still had gender expectations thrust on me.

Hey, I've had people never speak to me again when I commented taht JKR's first article about transpeople wasn't that transphobic and that there are differences between trans people and cis-people in that a transwoman isn't going to have had to deal with periods for instance. Mind you, I've also had people cut me off when I didn't give unequivocally glowing feedback for a DJ set.
So I'll take my usual position of uniting people by having most people dislike me.

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 11/03/2022 22:38

so how is it reinforcing patriarchy?

Transgenderism inevitably reinforces patriarchy because, as well as depending on the stereotypes/boxes as its raison d’être (how can you “transition” if there’s nothing to transition to or from?), it fundamentally benefits males at the expense of females, which is part of the essence of patriarchy.

If you deny the reality or the significance of biological sex, the people who will be most harmed are those who have been/are disadvantaged by their sex. We see this happening all the time already. Women and girls losing out on sporting opportunities and awards; being assaulted in prisons; giving up places on “top 100 women” lists; being deprived of single sex rape support groups… the list goes on and on.

This isn’t really happening to men/boys, although I know some teenage boys in the US are very uncomfortable about having to share changing rooms with young female people who identify as trans. But obviously there’s no safety issue for those boys as there is for girls in the reverse scenario. Men are harmed mostly insofar as we are all harmed by the creep of woke authoritarianism and the gagging of free speech.

When one sex is more vulnerable than the other, both because of immutable biological reality and because of social, political and economic disadvantage that has built up over generations and only just begun to be addressed, then that sex will suffer from the loss of sex-specific protections and redress for that disadvantage.

The sex that has more power and privilege, and that is relatively invulnerable to the opposite sex, faces no such issues.

Transgenderism takes away from female people to give to male people. Who already have roughly 90% of the pie. Patriarchy is male rule: transgenderism is male people controlling what women can say or do, controlling what boundaries we are allowed to have - even our bodily autonomy, when for example, women prisoners are forced to shower in the presence of male prisoners who identify as trans; or female swimmers are forced to change in the presence of male swimmers who identify as trans; women and girls at the WiSpa are subjected to a sex offender committing exhibitionism and voyeurism in their midst, and “liberal” people defend him.

Women have lost so many women only spaces; lesbians have lost lesbian only spaces, and the right - even within their own so called community - to assert their own sexual orientation. We’ve lost the very words we need to name ourselves as a discrete group with particular needs and rights.

And because it’s all done in the name of “progressiveness” and “minority rights”, it’s been incredibly difficult for women to challenge it, as we all know. The scapegoating and demonising of women along with the push for absolute control; the elevation of what male people want at the expense of what female people need - it couldn’t be more patriarchal.

It has increased the scope of what male people can do and have, by decreasing the scope of what female people can do and have. It’s the perfect woke backlash against feminism. Patriarchy reinventing itself for the progressive age.

KittenKong · 12/03/2022 19:50

Just listening to the world service ‘world questions’ on Estonia.

What about LGBtetc rights?
What about global warming…

What exactly is wrong with ‘young people’ that they don’t even have the decency to say ‘ok so I know there’s a war on and people are being shot and bombed but memememememe’

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