MI6

[littlebilliie]

I think there is so much to worry about with Ukraine, I wasn't expecting this statement from MI6 about freedoms.... I think a whole society is at risk yet there is more pontificate and point scoring which suggest a 'wall influence.

Completely tone deaf

I’m not sure people are intensely passionate about swearing 🤔

I mean i quite like swearing but I wouldn’t say I’m passionate about it

This is Mumsnet Hawkins001 - where women are permitted to swear without the permission of males and where most views are permitted to be expressed (within the confines of the law) no matter how many men who monitor us object.

Ooh I'm a passionate swearer

Just like the head of MI6 a lot of pointless words from you Hawkins. At a time when innocent people are being killed the head of MI6 says but anyway, enough about that, let’s virtue signal about LGBT and point out what a ‘safe’ place MI6 is to work for LGBT people. If he can’t see this is not the time or place then that’s extremely worrying.

He’s an arsehole.

wrt values and hard won freedoms, it would be rather interesting if Richard Moore were to elaborate on what these are and the current state of play as to whether some groups are reporting that they're being stripped of their dignity and freedom.

When heading into a period of heightened geopolitical instability or even national unrest, it's good to have a shared understanding of values. It would be an interesting exercise to know what they are after such a protracted period of losing moral leadership on the international stage and by interventions with disastrous outcomes for the populace elsewhere.

@BloodyBaffled

Ooh I'm a passionate swearer

Fucking A 😀

[quote EmbarrassingHadrosaurus]The Ukrainian National Guard, about 7 years ago incorporated the the far right Sector Right and the actual, literal Nazi Azov Battalion.

Interesting to read that because, in various other discussions on Triggernometry, it's claimed that that is restricted to part of West Ukraine rather than general. It's egregious anywhere but I'd be interested if you think it's more widespread than a small area in the West. Is it plausible that they have been supported with CIA training as outlined here?

jacobinmag.com/2022/01/cia-neo-nazi-training-ukraine-russia-putin-biden-nato[/quote]
I am very far from an expert in this. I'm trying to do the increasingly necessary thing of reading as much information as I can from all sides and putting together what I believe the most likely truth to be. But my (woeful) understanding is that Azov are more localised to the disputed Donbass regions where they are a pro-Ukraine/anti-Russian organisation. That was initially paramilitary but is now official military.

The Donbass region has essentially been the site of an 8 year long civil war, where an estimated 14,000 people have died since the Euromaiden uprising in 2014. Nearly 2,000 people a year. So this is no small skirmish. A lot of the population there are ethnically Russian and the majority are pro-Russia. It's a very messy situation with no easy answers. A lot of what Putin is laughed at for claiming, isn't wholly untrue. Not that I have any sympathy for Putin or his actions. Just that this is all a hell of a lot more complicated than is made out.

If you go back through recent history, you can see articles that show western telling Ukraine to curtail Azov, refusing military aid until Azov were curtailed. And then once Azov were incorporated into the National Guard, not really having a problem with them any more. I have no clue about how involved the CIA are. I wouldn't be overly surprised to find out that they aided Azov but I certainly don't know enough to say either way.

While Right Sector, began in a similar way but moved to also have an official political wing and as such has more sway across Ukraine as a whole. Many of their actions, murders and threats have happened in Kyiv for example. While many of their political followers are not exclusively military but in all sectors of public life and have enough sway in the police to allow them to act as they do.

www.codastory.com/lgbt-crisis/ukraine-in-the-balance/
www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-lgbt-march-kyiv-threats-of-violence/27788464.html

(I also want to point out that the writer of the article you posted and I in my previous post, both used the phrase, "actual, literal Nazis" to describe Azov. I didn't take that term from him, it's my own emphasis, because they are actual literal Nazis and it's important to stress that in a world where 'Nazi' is thrown about to describe anyone we disagree with.)

@Wanderingowl

A prime example of adding to the debates on the issues, very much appreciated

It's his poor phrasing. 'with the tragedy and destruction unfolding....let's resume our rainbow tweets'. Where's the 'we're thinking of the Ukrainians' or even a neutral 'we worry for the children, elderly and vulnerable'. His priorities come across as misplaced which given his position and the impact of his performance in his role on all of us is disturbing.
#rearranging the deckchairs

Is it perhaps a clever double bluff? "Let's make our adversaries think we are too preoccupied with pronouns to focus on our actual work effectively"?

@EwwSprouts

It's his poor phrasing. 'with the tragedy and destruction unfolding....let's resume our rainbow tweets'. Where's the 'we're thinking of the Ukrainians' or even a neutral 'we worry for the children, elderly and vulnerable'. His priorities come across as misplaced which given his position and the impact of his performance in his role on all of us is disturbing. #rearranging the deckchairs

I understand your perspectives, and overall mumsnet is a great place of learning, it's just sometimes it's like, when we can learn and debate, and understand more on various topics, it's just puzzling at times why curse, when we can learn and debate and understand more, about what ever the topic is.

I think Ewwwsprouts added more to the "debate" on this specific thread in FWR than any of your posts have, Hawkins.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Is it perhaps a clever double bluff? "Let's make our adversaries think we are too preoccupied with pronouns to focus on our actual work effectively"?

That's quite the possibility, look busy in area 51, when actually it's the base in eureka that has the important items ect

This isn't a "let's discuss the war in Ukraine in general terms" thread, there are about 50 other ones for that right now in AIBU and chat. This is about the inappropriately tone deaf nature of Moore's tweet.

It's etc for fuck's sake

Probably just a scheduled tweet, planned weeks ago?

@SpinningTheSeedsOfLove

It's etc for fuck's sake

Fair point, my mistake

@Hawkins001

No, Thank you.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I think Ewwwsprouts added more to the "debate" on this specific thread in FWR than any of your posts have, Hawkins.

That's good because id rather it be a collective effort.

Probably just a scheduled tweet, planned weeks ago?

No, the wording doesn't suggest that.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Is it perhaps a clever double bluff? "Let's make our adversaries think we are too preoccupied with pronouns to focus on our actual work effectively"?

Nah, it's for Stonewall points. It's very similar to all the tweets that "allies" send out on IWD reminding us that TW are more oppressed and more brilliant than women.

Funny when I had my interview for the post of nasty viper I was tested on swears but not ability to have discussions and debates and encourage the improvement and understanding of the information.

I passed with fucking flying colours and extra points for creative insults, too. Oddly not feeling inclined to perform analysis on demand, with or without use of my extensive colourful vocab.

Nah, it's for Stonewall points. It's very similar to all the tweets that "allies" send out on IWD reminding us that TW are more oppressed and more brilliant than women.

Yes I know, was just choosing to consider a ridiculously optimistic interpretation.