Mhairi Black and 'gingers'

[DomesticatedZombie]

order-order.com/2022/02/22/mhairi-black-compares-intersex-people-to-gingers/

I didn't realise Miriam Cates has a degree in genetics.

Anyway, here is Mhairi Black using a term I find pretty distasteful. 'Gingers'? Isn't this equivalent to 'Blondes'? Applied as a descriptor like this it winds me up.

As does her using of people with intersex disorders as a cheap, and irrelevant, point scoring exercise.

Re:”Intersex is estimated at between 1-2% in numerous pieces including the one below and Amnesty International “

Not according to DSD for parents

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12476264/

There you go.....proper paper on it. If you define 'intersex' or DSD as a condition where it is very hard to establish biological sex, then the incidence is very small indeed (see the paper).

If you include conditions such as hypospadias (where the urethral opening on the penis is not in the usual place) or others which are clear male or female disorders, then the incidence is higher. Many people with a DSD don't even know they have it until something comes up like a fertility issue.

And it is worth repeating - nothing to do with trans.

Yep - as I've said in another thread, someone close to me has a DSD and would be very upset/amused (depending on mood) at the idea that you couldn't tell what sex they are. Again, only got found out when investigated for fertility issues.

The other idea, that this is somehow anything to do with gender, transgender, or transsexual people, is even dumber.

It beggars belief that an MP spoke about it without checking it up and got it so wrong.

Thanks, tiktok. That abstract is excellent, and very clear:

'Anne Fausto-Sterling s suggestion that the prevalence of intersex might be as high as 1.7% has attracted wide attention in both the scholarly press and the popular media. Many reviewers are not aware that this figure includes conditions which most clinicians do not recognize as intersex, such as Klinefelter syndrome, Turner syndrome, and late-onset adrenal hyperplasia. If the term intersex is to retain any meaning, the term should be restricted to those conditions in which chromosomal sex is inconsistent with phenotypic sex, or in which the phenotype is not classifiable as either male or female. Applying this more precise definition, the true prevalence of intersex is seen to be about 0.018%, almost 100 times lower than Fausto-Sterling s estimate of 1.7%'

@DomesticatedZombie
Yes, for example there is a condition among these wider definitions where the hole for urine in the penis is a little displaced. It can easily be operated on to correct. There is no way that the child concerned is not a male. I personally know such a child. I think another example of one of the conditions under definitions might be an undescended testicle - perfectly common and the child is undoubtedly a male.

@ScrollingLeaves

It beggars belief that an MP spoke about it without checking it up and got it so wrong.

It really does seem that today an MP can stand in the HoC and waffle forth with any old unsubstantiated, untrue bollocks, without the faintest expectation of, well, you know, having the faintest idea of what they're talking about, having actual evidence, or being held accountable.

Which kind of makes the whole thing pointless. MPs and HoC.

[quote ScrollingLeaves]@DomesticatedZombie
Yes, for example there is a condition among these wider definitions where the hole for urine in the penis is a little displaced. It can easily be operated on to correct. There is no way that the child concerned is not a male. I personally know such a child. I think another example of one of the conditions under definitions might be an undescended testicle - perfectly common and the child is undoubtedly a male.[/quote]
I had a boyfriend in university with this condition. Definitely male, he has three kids now.

@ScrollingLeaves

It beggars belief that an MP spoke about it without checking it up and got it so wrong.

There is something a little insidious about this, because I suspect that they get these statistics from places they consider completely reliable - organizations like SW that have been acknowledged to be the go-to subject matter experts. They have complete trust in them.

Just like they might get stats on global warming from a big climate change charity.

It's a real problem.

@ScrollingLeaves, she does know she’s wrong. She chooses to ignore the true facts.

At least during Covid MPs had scientific advisers.

Oh my god I've been watching it. I cannot stand that wee Scottish bint. She makes my toes curl with anger.

They really attacked Miriam didn't they?? Ooh they don't like to hear the truth!!

And if I hear "toxic on both sides" or "we need more light less heat" when it's those lying sods causing the toxicity and heat, I'll scream!

They've really honed the skill of sounding sincere whilst lying through their teeth haven't they?

Joanne must've been sitting on her hands and biting her tongue sitting through that shite!!!

Mhairi Black is an absolute embarrassment. She try's to portray herself as a rough ned from Paisley - except she's not from Ferguslie Park (the rough part) but from Ralston, the posh part.
She has well off, educated parents (school teacher), went to a posh catholic school (Lourdes Secondary School) and was in the privileged position to go to Glasgow university yet she took pot shots at Douglas Ross for being a 'privileged tory' - the guy who's father was a cattleman and who went to Forres Academy and onto Agricultural college and had real jobs outside politics such as working on a dairy farm.
The only people she is fooling are the SNP faithful.

And thats before we even consider her 'kit-kat' habit either.

I don't give a shit about her background.
I care that she's deliberately misleading the Commons about sex and using disingenuous arguments that make it clear she doesn't care about debating the truth, just peddling nonsense and pretending she thinks someone "doesn't believe in ginger people".

@user1471447863

Mhairi Black is an absolute embarrassment. She try's to portray herself as a rough ned from Paisley - except she's not from Ferguslie Park (the rough part) but from Ralston, the posh part. She has well off, educated parents (school teacher), went to a posh catholic school (Lourdes Secondary School) and was in the privileged position to go to Glasgow university yet she took pot shots at Douglas Ross for being a 'privileged tory' - the guy who's father was a cattleman and who went to Forres Academy and onto Agricultural college and had real jobs outside politics such as working on a dairy farm. The only people she is fooling are the SNP faithful.

And thats before we even consider her 'kit-kat' habit either.

I'm no way a fan of Black but this is not quite right. Your making it sound that's she from some sort of cosseted middle class world. You've completely misrepresented her. Ralston is nice but is surrounded by deprivation. Just like most people from Paisley or Glasgow, you will not be ignorant of how hard life can be for others. Plus, like most high schools in Glasgow, Lourdes is not some lovely, middle class school. It's very mixed with kids from a range of backgrounds. I'm a bit baffled by your representation of her actually.

I'm ginger. It's exactly the same as saying blondes ...

@bishophaha

I don't give a shit about her background. I care that she's deliberately misleading the Commons about sex and using disingenuous arguments that make it clear she doesn't care about debating the truth, just peddling nonsense and pretending she thinks someone "doesn't believe in ginger people".

Mostly, I agree, although if she's attacked others for being 'privileged' it's maybe inevitable that focus will be turned on her background.

Ideally, politicians would rise above this kind of petty ad hom, but it seems to be beyond many of them.

Ms Black will I hope, be well aware of the deprivation that some families in her constituency face. However, it is not true to say that she has not lived a Middle class lifestyle because she attended a local school. Most middle class families in the Glasgow area send their children to schools like Lourdes, which, although mixed have a higher than average number of children coming from middle class backgrounds and many like Ms Black's family transferring in from outside the school's catchment area.

@334bu

Ms Black will I hope, be well aware of the deprivation that some families in her constituency face. However, it is not true to say that she has not lived a Middle class lifestyle because she attended a local school. Most middle class families in the Glasgow area send their children to schools like Lourdes, which, although mixed have a higher than average number of children coming from middle class backgrounds and many like Ms Black's family transferring in from outside the school's catchment area.

I’m not sure how familiar you are with the area she’s from but Lourdes is a 10 min bus journey from where she’s from and probably her nearest Catholic school. Plus her mum was a teacher at that school.

Lourdes is a typical Catholic high school, (half the schools in Glasgow are Catholic). I know it very well, there is nothing special about this school and it does not have higher than average numbers of middle class kids. Im sure every postcode in the catchment area fall under the SIMD index 1-4. In fact, I’m sure Paisley Grammar, which would have been the school in her catchment, but not Catholic performs better.

Glasgow is an incredibly mixed city where the very poor live next door to the well off, and attend the same schools. You’d have to leave the city boundaries to find a Middle class enclave where this was not the case.

Her nearest perhaps but not her catchment school. Compared with other Catholic secondary schools in the area Lourdes has a much higher middle class intake.

No, it’s not her catchment school because Ralston is just on the very border outside Glasgow but it’s still the closest school. Catholic secondary schools have massive catchment areas, there is no other school in the area. That’s why the schools tend to have high numbers of pupils that come from a broad socioeconomic demographic.

In Glasgow , Lourdes along with Holyrood have always been considered to be the "best" of the mixed Catholic schools.

Both Black's parents were teachers. She is not "working class".