Lia Thomas is the Ivy League Champion in the 500 free

[Justme56]

Not only is Lia the champion, but Lia set a new pool record. Lia was, I believe, 7 seconds faster than Catherine Buroker.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

If you watch the video it looks like Lia is not even trying particularly hard.

Yes, I had exactly the same impression. Lia was cruising, and we all know why.

Do you have a share token for this article? Or could you please take screenshots?
Apologies.
This article appeared on my Google news and I was able to read it at that point. However, it now appears to be behind a pay wall. Sorry but I have no idea how I was able to read it in the first place. Could it have been archived?

The Mail on Sunday (Sarah Vine) covering this:

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10531313/SARAH-VINE-really-telling-burly-swimmer-Lia-Thomas-playing-fair.html

@334bu

*Do you have a share token for this article? Or could you please take screenshots?* Apologies. This article appeared on my Google news and I was able to read it at that point. However, it now appears to be behind a pay wall. Sorry but I have no idea how I was able to read it in the first place. Could it have been archived?

Found an archive archive.fo/T2uza

@Needmoresleep there’s two approaches to us admissions. The main one is to apply with good academics plus lots of extra curricular, such as sport. The ivies are needs blind as you say.

The other way is through a completely seperate application process for a sports scholarship if you are SERIOUSLY good. And that isn’t related to parental income.

[quote Goatsaregreat]The Mail on Sunday (Sarah Vine) covering this:

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10531313/SARAH-VINE-really-telling-burly-swimmer-Lia-Thomas-playing-fair.html[/quote]
Excellent article by Sarah Vine - spot on.

Sarah Vine's comment is great barring one sub clause "Lia Thomas, while emotionally and psychologically a woman,"

I did think that gibbons

What the fuck is emotionally a woman 🤔

@RufustheFloralmissingreindeer

I did think that gibbons

What the fuck is emotionally a woman 🤔

It must be the meekness & not wanting to be centre stage or maybe there is some other massively sexist stereotype that fits better

Yeah if the thought of being a woman gives you a massive hard on, clue: you're not one.

I live where the latest swim meets took place. Pretty much radio silence from the news outlets.

I can gaurantee you that if an actual woman was competing with these times there would be

a. total news coverage - as this would be the next female Michael Phelps

b. huge discussion of possible doping

Boston is a big sports town. This record-breaking happened on our doorstep. If it was a woman the sports pages would be full of "phenome swimmer XYZ looks likely to be the female Michael Phelps in next olympics" Instead it is reported below high school sports and in news outlets who haven't completely given up the ghost yet with a bit of "people in some circles question ... "

even the supporters of this mad belief know what is what.

It would be social and academic suicide for the women on the swim team to openly complain. They would be hounded on social media, lose friends and I wonder how forthcoming their professors would be with letters of recommendation etc. - all because they know what we all know. It is madness.

I wonder what emotions and psychological elements Vine thinks she shares with Thomas that Thomas doesn't share with eg Michael Phelps.

The fact that Isaac came second is hilarious.

Not only does Isaac decide it isn't LiTeRaL ViOlEnCe to not compete against men, you know, given he is a man, and somehow Thomas must swim against females. But also despite swimming 2 seconds faster than 7 weeks ago, and beating Thomas then, Thomas swam so much faster now that magically Thomas came first this time round. You know, in the race that matters, the championship race. So obvious back then they colluded to let Isaac win.

Also Ross Tucker's analysis is quite certain - Thomas did not even swim as fast as possible, that massive speed increase at the end, ridiculous. I go up full gas my local climb regularly and if I had that much power left at the end of it, I would be nowhere near my fastest time for the overall climb.

Also Ross Tucker's analysis is quite certain - Thomas did not even swim as fast as possible, that massive speed increase at the end, ridiculous.

Maybe trans individuals have magic finishing powers.

Can't compare their split times with cis people... There's been no proper research into how trans people finish races.

bariweiss.substack.com/p/watching-lia-thomas-win

Another article here. It has a lot of pertinent points to it but in many ways also completely useless because it uses female pronouns and frames Thomas as a type of woman.

Unless we start calling men, men we will constantly be on the back foot in protecting women's sport, prisons etc...

Here’s a thought. The female athletes can’t refuse to compete as that would be scholarship suicide. However, the OFFICIALS should all refuse to officiate. The races couldn't go ahead without timekeepers etc. One woman already had (she was quoted as saying ‘bodies compete against bodies, not identities against identities…) The officials need to collectively organise and collectively refuse to record/timekeeper/officiate on this madness.

But the coaches are totally into this. In the US at least professional coaching sounds extremely competitive and you keep your job by results. It's coaches and officials who have historically inducted young athletes into doping cultures, though obviously the athletes retain responsibility.

Actually I'm arguing myself into agreeing with you. The coaches are the ones with power here. The issue has been imposed from the IOC downwards. And it will take officials to rebel.

But I imagine the officials (not the coaches) are more like volunteers/not their main form of income etc… Surely they are middle aged and older ex-athletes themselves. A collective walk out?

But would they know who was competing? Obviously Thomas has had lots of publicity but there will be trans competitors who transitioned before college and are much less visually obvious. Swimming is easier because the whole body differences are so stark but eg in athletics it's not quite so dramatic. It would be a lot to ask an official to make a split second judgment on this.

TRAs and their allies like to argue that 'sport isn't fair anyway' and that there will always be people who have a competitive edge...

... so let's see...

The competitive edge that Michael Phelps' physical advantages gave him over his closest male competitors at the peak of his career measured less than 0.5%.

Phelps' edge over the top female swimmers of his era was 9-13% - which is the usual performance gap between females and males in swimming.

At the 2004 Olympics, Phelps won the 200m butterfly with a time of 51.25 seconds. The second place man had a time of 51.29 seconds. That's a performance gap of 0.08%.

Phelps beat the 8th place male finisher by 2.56%.

By contrast, Phelps' winning time in the 2004 men's Olympic 100m butterfly was 12.56% faster than the winning time of the female swimmer who won the same event that year in the women's category.

There have been many elite female swimmers over the years like Sylvia Poll, Claudia Poll, and Missy Franklin who have physical features such as unusually tall height (the three are 6'4, 6'3 and 6'2 respectively), large feet, and enormous shoulder width and long arms resulting in vast wingspan that together have given them natural advantages over their competitors too. But all around the world at every level of swimming, from junior club level to the Olympics, males consistently outperform females by about 10-12%. And swimming, along with running, is a sport where the male-female gap is the lowest. In some sports, the gap is 50% - and in particular activities like throwing a ball or a punch, the male advantage is 160%-350%.

The performance gaps between the male and female competitors in the 100m butterfly finals at the 2004, 2008 and 2012 Olympics were as follows:

2004

1st place: Male>Female +12.62%
2nd place: Male>Female +12.77%
8th place: Male>Female +13.83%

2008

1st place: Male>Female +12.16%
2nd place: Male>Female +12.87%
8th place: Male>Female +12.88%

2012
1st place: Male>Female +9.31%
2nd place: Male>Female +10.55%
8th place: Male>Female +10.97%
...

time and time and time again the only universal competitive edge is male over female.

Can't compare their split times with cis people... There's been no proper research into how trans people finish races. hmm

Yep! So bloody transparent - no pun intended but really?

@PermanentTemporary

But would they know who was competing? Obviously Thomas has had lots of publicity but there will be trans competitors who transitioned before college and are much less visually obvious. Swimming is easier because the whole body differences are so stark but eg in athletics it's not quite so dramatic. It would be a lot to ask an official to make a split second judgment on this.

It isn't as difficult as you think. Doesn't need any special equipment, tests or checking of genitals, not even a birth certificate.

Every human being alive knows what a man is and what a woman is. If there is the slightest doubt it is banished a soon as the person moves. The human gait and the sexed differences cannot be masked, cannot be 'surgeried' away and are so obvious that we see them, no matter how the person is dressed.

A split second is all anyone would need.

Sorry to many of you for the repeat, but, as that wise woman Shakira so eloquently said, "Those hips don't lie"

Male puberty creates the adult male body, it's obvious once puberty has taken place and is an irreversible change. The only way to even things up would be for Thomas to start later, or have weights attached, in a proportional volume to his female competitors to change by percentage his advantage to the point the race is fair. At this point Thomas would not win as he would again become average in the competition. However, he could gain integrity back.

Alternatively, men's sports could become mix gender and female stay as single sex. Then men could compete with men, but some could call themselves women when they felt like it as gender is fluid. Thomas could compete as man or woman in the open gender group depending on how he felt on the day.

The shoulders! We are all being taken for idiots.

@GibbonsGoatsGibbons

Sarah Vine's comment is great barring one sub clause "Lia Thomas, while emotionally and psychologically a woman,"

www.conservativesforwomen.org/what-is-psychologically-a-woman

“But while we continue to repeat the ridiculous idea that a man can be 'emotionally and psychologically a woman' then we will continue to tread water in the fight for the rights of women and the safeguarding of children. I struggle to believe Sarah Vine believes this man is actually a woman, so why not speak the truth?”