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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lia Thomas is the Ivy League Champion in the 500 free

136 replies

Justme56 · 18/02/2022 09:10

Not only is Lia the champion, but Lia set a new pool record. Lia was, I believe, 7 seconds faster than Catherine Buroker.

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Plasmodesmata · 19/02/2022 19:33

Isaac is legitimately swimming in the woman's race though, as they are not male.

ClaudiusTheGod · 19/02/2022 19:35

Isaac is legitimately swimming in the woman's race though, as they are not male.

I don’t understand. How are they not male?

Plasmodesmata · 19/02/2022 19:38

I can't really explain within the rules of this board. I may have already said too much.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 19/02/2022 19:39

Isaac is a woman in the processing of transitioning to a (trans)man and is therefore female.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 19/02/2022 19:39

@ClaudiusTheGod

Isaac is legitimately swimming in the woman's race though, as they are not male.

I don’t understand. How are they not male?

They are female

A transman

ATrifleofFun · 19/02/2022 19:52

Quite fascinating to see then, Henig will be forced out of women's competition once he takes testosterone and is unlikely to join the men's team. While Lia continues...

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 19/02/2022 19:54

@EdithStourton

Lia Thomas should be ashamed of liaself.

Refuse to use 'her'.

Absolutely this.

Shame on Lia Thomas. But also, shame all those sports writer who fawn on LT. They have lost their right to pontificate about sport, because they support cheating.

BettyFilous · 19/02/2022 19:56

Poor Ross Tucker. He sounded totally exasperated in his Science of Sport podcast when the IOC published their updated trans rules (TLDR version: anything goes, have at it fella!) and said he wished the trans sports issue wasn’t taking up so many of his podcasts. However, he seems appalled at the lack of critical thinking, unfairness and the willful blindness of sporting bodies to the mounting evidence base on this. He’s a real friend to women and sport in this. I am so grateful for his steadfast voice in this debate, along with athletes like Sharron Davies and Martina Navratilova. I’m with Ross: I can’t wait for this idiocy to be over so we can get back to tackling other pressing issues.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 19/02/2022 19:57

sports writers

ClaudiusTheGod · 19/02/2022 23:01

Oh I see - re Isaac. Sorry!

Needmoresleep · 20/02/2022 00:26

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10531313/SARAH-VINE-really-telling-burly-swimmer-Lia-Thomas-playing-fair.html

The US media may not be touching the story, but the Mail are not letting go.

CovidCorvid · 20/02/2022 00:33

So Lia gets a scholarship as well as all the records. Which means somewhere a biological woman isn’t receiving a scholarship. Doesn’t have a place on the team, etc.

CovidCorvid · 20/02/2022 00:34

The other competitors need to make a stand and at the last second not dive in the pool. Let Lia compete against themselves.

Rhannion · 20/02/2022 01:37

@CovidCorvid

The other competitors need to make a stand and at the last second not dive in the pool. Let Lia compete against themselves.
I agree , why can’t they stand together, what are their parents thinking ? Surely they can see how ridiculous this situation is for their daughters. I would be creating merry hell if it was my child who had worked so hard to be beaten by a cheat. They must make a stand. Why are they so frightened?
MangyInseam · 20/02/2022 03:01

If any of them are there on sports scholarships, refusing to swim might mean giving up their university places. And I daresay that for many the degree is the main point of being there, not the swimming.

OperationDessertStorm · 20/02/2022 04:34

Why should they miss out on their swim and their scholarships and experiences for something so obviously unfair. Why can’t the university talk about this rationally with the actual people involved rather some imagined lobby groups online? Those poor women.

MidCenturyClegs · 20/02/2022 07:05
Do you have a share token for this article? Or could you please take screenshots?
Loopytiles · 20/02/2022 07:08

Was going to ask about the scholarship: that’s shit.

So unfair to women.

PermanentTemporary · 20/02/2022 07:15

Just to say I don't give a damn whether Lia has had surgery or not. The break in the rules came in 2003 when transwomen were allowed to compete having had genital surgery. That didn't affect much as the surgery is so rare - but it's right that it's rare. I know someone who had that surgery a few years back and is still having complications from it. I don't think anyone should have it. A woman is not a male person who's had genital surgery.

Needmoresleep · 20/02/2022 07:33

Afaik you do not get scholarships to Ivy schools. They are so competitive to enter and swimming helps get you in, but you also need to be very academic. And you need to keep that level of academics up alongside training. Sort of like making the British team whilst studying at Oxford. As a result their swim teams are normally nowhere near the levels achieved by the major sports/swimming universities like Auburn. That is why the idea that an Ivy could produce a NCAA champion is very unlikely.

Unless, of course, that swimmer had some sort of advantage.

Loopytiles · 20/02/2022 07:42

Ivy League schools do offer big fees discounts, including for sports.

Scout98765 · 20/02/2022 07:46

@Needmoresleep you definitely do get BIG (as in 100%) scholarships to Ivy League schools for sports. That also includes top top training and kit and equipment etc. The academics are there, but not in the same way as Oxbridge if you are very sporty.

Loopytiles · 20/02/2022 07:47

Interesting article here in Swimming World magazine by Nancy Hogshead-Makar, a former swimming champion who has set up an organisation providing advocacy and legal services for girls and women in sport.

www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/sex-matters-why-lia-thomas-and-transgender-athletes-must-not-compete-against-biological-females/

Loopytiles · 20/02/2022 07:49

From the article ‘ As a civil rights lawyer, I run Champion Women, a non-profit that provides legal advocacy for girls and women in sports. We produce data — for athletes, families, alumni and donors – which demonstrates just how badly 90% of colleges and universities are discriminating against women.

In total, women are denied over 183,000 opportunities to play collegiate sports, they’re denied over a billion dollars in athletic scholarships, and hundreds and millions of dollars in treatment, meaning women aren’t being given equal facilities, locker rooms, medical care, publicity, travel, and so forth.

I’ve never met a single female athlete that couldn’t list the ways they’re getting second-class treatment as compared to their male football or basketball players.

In those 38 years, I’ve never heard a single man say, ‘Oh you women face such overwhelming sex discrimination throughout society, particularly in sexual harassment and violence. Here, take our athletic facilities and scholarships.

Quite the opposite.’

Needmoresleep · 20/02/2022 08:19

Scout, are you sure these are not linked to parental income. Ie as in being needs blind, not just linked to sport.

Lots of American parents we knew in Central London encouraged sport as a way for their kids to get into top US universities. It was always the place they were after, not the scholarship. Several did get in, including a swimmer who went on to become an Ivy champion. From what people said, there was no money attached to sport itself. If you were given a free ride it was because they wanted you as an academic/sporty package and you qualified under needs blind provisions.

FWIW Lia and others appear to be from affluent backgrounds.

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