Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

UK Physios

932 replies

Calyx72 · 11/02/2022 20:56

Please sign into CSP and look at the new iCSP discussion "Stonewall and the CSP"

A great thread beginning and agreement that stonewall are problematic and women's rights are being overlapped by male rights

Then a HUGE ESSAY by a TRA

Sad
OP posts:
Thread gallery
84
Calyx72 · 02/05/2024 19:39

VenusEnvyXX · 02/05/2024 19:17

Yes, I now see one comment, and, interestingly, it's not the comment which was messaged to me.

Curiouser and curiouser

That's not sinister at alllll

<sarcasm>

OP posts:
RadFiz · 02/05/2024 19:56

VenusEnvyXX · 02/05/2024 19:17

Yes, I now see one comment, and, interestingly, it's not the comment which was messaged to me.

Curiouser and curiouser

Someone has started a separate discussion about the article on the pelvic/gynae icsp network page. Is that the comment you were referring to? Refers to the article as “dystopian”.

FrothyCothy · 02/05/2024 21:26

Did the CSP provide you with representation when you were under investigation by HCPC @VenusEnvyXX ? Could they potentially refuse to provide representation to a member with GC views? Seems barmy to me that one part of CSP could be robustly defending a GC member citing Maya, Meade et al, while other parts of the CSP are potentially reporting members to the regulator for being GC 🤯

Anklesprainssuck · 02/05/2024 23:15

https://www.csp.org.uk/icsp/discussion/new-support-after-pregnancy-or-baby-loss-24-weeks?network-id=225997
FYI, this is the link to the discussion thread, this has the same heading as the statement so looked like a duplicate initially then searching icsp.
this has been posted on the Pelvic Obs Gyn network.

Am really pi**ed off with the CSP now, the original statement was by a H and S rep which concerns me as to how far this erosion of women’s rights goes.

Log in

https://www.csp.org.uk/icsp/discussion/new-support-after-pregnancy-or-baby-loss-24-weeks?network-id=225997

Bosky · 05/05/2024 04:42

FrothyCothy · 02/05/2024 21:26

Did the CSP provide you with representation when you were under investigation by HCPC @VenusEnvyXX ? Could they potentially refuse to provide representation to a member with GC views? Seems barmy to me that one part of CSP could be robustly defending a GC member citing Maya, Meade et al, while other parts of the CSP are potentially reporting members to the regulator for being GC 🤯

"Could they potentially refuse to provide representation to a member with GC views?"

(Retired SaLT Union Rep chipping in here)

If they do then they would be in breach of Section 57 of the Equality Act.

57 Trade organisations

(1) A trade organisation (A) must not discriminate against a person (B)—

(a) in the arrangements A makes for deciding to whom to offer membership of the organisation;

(b) as to the terms on which it is prepared to admit B as a member;

(c) by not accepting B's application for membership.

(2) A trade organisation (A) must not discriminate against a member (B)—

(a) in the way it affords B access, or by not affording B access, to opportunities for receiving a benefit, facility or service;

(b) by depriving B of membership;

(c) by varying the terms on which B is a member;

(d) by subjecting B to any other detriment.

(3) A trade organisation must not, in relation to membership of it, harass—

(a) a member, or

(b) an applicant for membership.

(4) A trade organisation (A) must not victimise a person (B)—

(a) in the arrangements A makes for deciding to whom to offer membership of the organisation;

(b) as to the terms on which it is prepared to admit B as a member;

(c) by not accepting B's application for membership.

(5) A trade organisation (A) must not victimise a member (B)—

(a) in the way it affords B access, or by not affording B access, to opportunities for receiving a benefit, facility or service;

(b) by depriving B of membership;

(c) by varying the terms on which B is a member;

(d) by subjecting B to any other detriment.

(6) A duty to make reasonable adjustments applies to a trade organisation.

(7) A trade organisation is—

(a) an organisation of workers,

(b) an organisation of employers, or

(c) any other organisation whose members carry on a particular trade or profession for the purposes of which the organisation exists.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/57

Explanatory Notes to Section 57:

  1. This section makes it unlawful for a trade organisation to discriminate against, harass or victimise a person who is, or is applying to be, a member. It also requires trade organisations to make reasonable adjustments for disabled people.

  2. A trade organisation is an organisation of workers (such as a trade union) or employers (such as the Chambers of Commerce); or an organisation whose members carry out a particular trade or profession (such as the British Medical Association, the Institute of Civil Engineers and the Law Society).

  3. This section is designed to replicate the effect of similar provisions in previous legislation. It also extends the protection to cover discrimination in the arrangements made for determining to whom membership should be offered.

Examples

A trade union restricts its membership to men. This would be direct discrimination.

An organisation of employers varies membership subscriptions or access to conferences because of a person’s race. This would be direct discrimination.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/5/1/19

-----

They might already be in breach of Section 57 if they are conflating gender critical views with "transphobia" as per the CSP definition, eg.

by deleting comments so that members with gender critical views are prevented from enjoying the benefit of services provided by the CSP and participation in CSP activities and discussion;

by encouraging CSP members to harass other members with gender critical views by reporting them for "hate".

CSP should take legal advice about the statement it has issued.

It might consider avoiding legal action by amending the Statement, clarifying:

that gender critical views are not transphobic

that all the protections it wishes to provide for people who believe in the existence of gender identities must also be provided for people who do not believe in the existence of gender identities

same sort of thing re "Conversion Practices" (you get the picture).

Hope this is helpful xx

ps. VenusEnvyXX I am eternally grateful for your pelvic floor exercises - how are you getting on with those voice exercises? 😘

stealtheatingtunnocks · 05/05/2024 10:13

The comments are brutal. I’m wondering which of us are commenting?

im surprised it took so long to get into the press.

UK Physios
VenusEnvyXX · 06/05/2024 02:04

It's been a busy few days, hasn't it?

I'm not sure what the outcome of all of this is going to be, but, I'm running out of reasons to not stand for election onto the council. I've been told it might be difficult to team build if I'm there because I'm "divisive". Which is silly, I'm adorable. Everyone who's spoken to me sez so.

Anklesprainssuck · 06/05/2024 06:45

( defo adorable VenusEnvyXX)

stealtheatingtunnocks · 06/05/2024 09:37

Fucking hell, Rob. He’s got some background in PR, I think? That’s a terrible response.

the other thread links to some official tweets which are ridiculous.

LouisaGuy · 06/05/2024 10:55

Divisive? Who said that to you? It's meant to be a democratic process so the members can decide whether to elect you or not. Sounds like someone actively trying to put you off. What's behind that?

RadFiz · 06/05/2024 10:57

Let’s not forget that another member was previously accused of transphobia and stood for council and ended up getting elected. So if he can do it then so can you @VenusEnvyXX!

VenusEnvyXX · 06/05/2024 12:01

The person on the exec I spoke to told me I am seen as divisive, that more than one person told this person that I am transphobic and that the person would not meet with me alone. So, it seems I am subject to reputational harm, which isn't a surprise but is rather confronting.

I'm being coy about the person because it was good that time was made for me and I did feel like what I said was heard - and I don't want to land them in it for the crime of meeting a heretic. I also think they were shocked by what I said - but then, any decent person would think being complicit in the wholesale sterilising of autistic kids is shocking.

My point was that physio has a role in the care of these people, but we can't set up services without a evidence based conversations.

VenusEnvyXX · 06/05/2024 12:03

RadFiz · 06/05/2024 10:57

Let’s not forget that another member was previously accused of transphobia and stood for council and ended up getting elected. So if he can do it then so can you @VenusEnvyXX!

I heard there was something like 4.5k votes cast in that election and he got something like 4k of them. Arf.

Believerinbiology · 24/05/2024 10:58

Have lurked on this thread on and off for a while. Have stepped away from the profession for a number of years...burnout, disillusioned (e.g. told have to use gender, can't record sex in clinical research to pass ethics board even though would invalidate the research). Had hoped my former professional body would start to see sense but this popped up on my feed....
https://www.facebook.com/100064689216628/posts/pfbid027vGhu87oLZvWjXknAfrEqAks9J5nY2RpEdFFd6zDZmRBTMbbh3NSFgdRKimMVpTel/?app=fbl
Looks like nothing's changed.
Btw @VenusEnvyXX thank you, thank you, thank you for keeping confidently talking sense...at some point it has to sink in (I hope).

Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/100064689216628/posts/pfbid027vGhu87oLZvWjXknAfrEqAks9J5nY2RpEdFFd6zDZmRBTMbbh3NSFgdRKimMVpTel?app=fbl

Anklesprainssuck · 26/05/2024 09:19

Out of interest believerinbiology, will you be able to get access and see what the Irish CSP are presenting? ( looks like you need to be a member). Over the years I have worked with a number of Irish trained physio’s so interested in what their professional body is saying.

Believerinbiology · 26/05/2024 09:41

No my membership has lapsed so won't be able to. Seen as though Philippa Ryder and Joanna Harper presented their stories and 'research' at conference a few years ago I don't think it will be a sensible "treat everybody with respect but of course you don't need to deny reality" line and more a "treat the person as they say they are even if that's not in their best interest and breaches the boundaries of others".

Calyx72 · 26/05/2024 10:38

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

Apologies for the DM link but I am happy to see this.

OP posts:
Calyx72 · 26/05/2024 10:41

Believerinbiology · 24/05/2024 10:58

Have lurked on this thread on and off for a while. Have stepped away from the profession for a number of years...burnout, disillusioned (e.g. told have to use gender, can't record sex in clinical research to pass ethics board even though would invalidate the research). Had hoped my former professional body would start to see sense but this popped up on my feed....
https://www.facebook.com/100064689216628/posts/pfbid027vGhu87oLZvWjXknAfrEqAks9J5nY2RpEdFFd6zDZmRBTMbbh3NSFgdRKimMVpTel/?app=fbl
Looks like nothing's changed.
Btw @VenusEnvyXX thank you, thank you, thank you for keeping confidently talking sense...at some point it has to sink in (I hope).

@Believerinbiology I totally agree with the frustration/anger about gender vs sex despite invalidation of research. Glad you have found us and I second your thanks to @VenusEnvyXX. Thanks to you all for the solidarity as well.

OP posts:
RadFiz · 29/06/2024 18:04

I see the society have been out at Pride today. Nothing wrong with that but note the t-shirts only mention trans rights!

I think that’s the CEO in yellow trousers. I’m also pretty sure that behind him, in what looks like a hat last seen in the SS, is our old friend Jack of the predatory women tweet. https://x.com/thecsp/status/1807054069040607291

Believerinbiology · 29/06/2024 19:01

Same story in Ireland...ISCP have webinar from TENI on Monday for pride. No other talks/initiatives mentioned on FB

Calyx72 · 29/06/2024 21:54

RadFiz · 29/06/2024 18:04

I see the society have been out at Pride today. Nothing wrong with that but note the t-shirts only mention trans rights!

I think that’s the CEO in yellow trousers. I’m also pretty sure that behind him, in what looks like a hat last seen in the SS, is our old friend Jack of the predatory women tweet. https://x.com/thecsp/status/1807054069040607291

Yes that's the CEO I think. He was at one of our physio departments in Scotland last week, I watched via Teams. A lot of waffle and I still don't feel my CSP fees are worth it.

I am so pissed off that so few people in our Union actually understand or even care to understand how women feel about this whole ideology and how threatened we are. Those brave nurses standing up for their single sex spaces from the trans-identified man had to find their own lawyers, why are unions so into this even in professions which are female dominated (numbers wise)

OP posts:
RadFiz · 29/06/2024 23:08

@Calyx72 I’ve heard the same from others who’ve heard him speak. A lot of waffle but very little of substance said.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 30/06/2024 10:12

I think TRA’s are embedding themselves in the Royal College of Occupational Therapists too. Men targetting a predominantly women’s occupational group.