Page 3 | Dylan Moran

floralembroidery · 12/02/2022 09:21

Dylan Moran strikes me as someone who's not nearly as funny as he thinks he is. Humour requires more than being born Irish and miserable.

Eddie Izzard was a deep, deep disappointment.

No thank you.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/02/2022 10:42

his show but early on in the set there was a very vocal, loud transwoman in the audience so JB engaged with them and rather than take the piss as per the usual way of dealing with hecklers he did the whole stunningvand brave congratulations then said fuck JK.

Misogynistic dick.

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billydilly · 12/02/2022 11:56

I've seen some footage of his current tour and I'm shocked; where's all the clever word play? He seemed drunk and ill.

I've got a refund, add in the misogyny and I'm out. I'm perfectly happy to have my ideas challenged but refuse to waste my money on someone so careless and defunct.

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Ameanstreakamilewide · 12/02/2022 12:26

Some comedians are obviously woke as fuck, but someone like John Bishop saying bullshit like that baffles me.
No way does he genuinely believe that shite and having a pop at JKR is just pathetic.

I know no one truly believes it, mind you.

But do some celebrities say it and go along with it simply because they know what side their (income based) bread is buttered?

Ameanstreakamilewide · 12/02/2022 12:29

@floralembroidery

Dylan Moran strikes me as someone who's not nearly as funny as he thinks he is. Humour requires more than being born Irish and miserable.

Eddie Izzard was a deep, deep disappointment.

No thank you.

Definitely about DM. He was great in Black Books, but the best episodes were written by our very own Glinner. The episodes he wrote don't have the right 'something' for me.

I feel like he's made a career just off the back of that program.

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billydilly · 12/02/2022 12:48

Are we to conclude that only those people who are unassailable in terms of wealth and reputation will speak out? The Joanne's, Ricky's and (?) Adele's? What a fucking world.

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PermanentTemporary · 12/02/2022 12:55

I think there are (genuinely) levels of belief and that's ok. I'm an atheist. I'm as certain as I can be that there is no God. But my certainty is not the same certainty as the certainty that I have a phone in my hand. And I can look on the beliefs and spiritual experiences of religious people with a kind of awe and respect, and a belief in their importance for those individuals, without ever thinking that there is a supernatural being responsible for them.

So I can believe that there are many people who simply accept that the transgender experience is real and requires respect for a type of experience that they don't share. The difficulty is the increasingly forceful voices that don't give us space not to share the same experience and in fact to have a conflicting experience that requires equal respect. Also voices who require us to believe that all experiences that take the form of living life as an altered genderare exactly the same; rather like a Christian who insists that all Gods are the Christian God, for example.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/02/2022 13:01

But do some celebrities say it and go along with it simply because they know what side their (income based) bread is buttered?

Absolutely they do.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/02/2022 13:04

And many see it as an opportunity to raise their profile by virtue signalling. Often when they have a book out, etc.

ApocalypseNowt · 12/02/2022 13:12

I'm pretty sure Stewart Francis is GC. He did some jokes the last time I saw him that makes me think he definitely gets it.

gingerhills · 12/02/2022 13:17

@billydilly

Having been let down by Stewart Lee I wondered if anyone knows how Dylan Moran stands on gender woowoo? I have tickets to see him soon...

in what way did Stewart Lee let you down? (Saw his show recently and no mention of gender issues as far as I remember.)

NecessaryScene · 12/02/2022 13:18

@billydilly

Are we to conclude that only those people who are unassailable in terms of wealth and reputation will speak out? The Joanne's, Ricky's and (?) Adele's? What a fucking world.

Helen Dale had a good description of the way this impacts different levels of public figure:

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 12/02/2022 13:25

If you loved DM's work in the past, I would advise you to keep well away from his live shows. Sadly, he is often incoherently drunk. As much as I disagree with his views on TW, it's very sad to see. A great talent brought down by alcohol dependence. I really hope he manages to get sober at some point.

NameChangesforNoman · 12/02/2022 13:27

@DogDaysNeverEnd That’s exactly what I read into that preamble too. I think it was just prior to Fifteen Minutes of Shame.

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billydilly · 12/02/2022 13:52

@NecessaryScene Thanks for that, really well put and succinct, I love Andrew Doyle.

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Manderleyagain · 12/02/2022 14:11

Dominic Sandbrooke is very GC. That's interesting. I'm always surprised when historians are twaw. Many academic ones are, but I'm sure many who say nothing have a more sensible approach. Do you just get that impression from listening to the podcast over time, or has he said/written something specific?

I think there will be a previous thread here on both moran (when he had a massive go at terfs and glinner) and also Minchin. Minchin had a twitter run in with lots of gc's (which can't have been nice to be fair) over theatre toilets. Caroline criado perez was arguing on twitter with a theatre who had changed all their women's loos to gender neutral. The theatre ended up blocking her I think because they were super woke & couldn't accept that womem had the need for enough of their own loos. It wasn't about trans ppl, only indirectly in that the policy was to appear inclusive of 'gender diverse' ppl or whatever terms they used. Minchin (who knew the theatre ppl personally?) came in on their side and suffered the wrath of the online gc's. They were right and he was wrong. It was annoying. His instinct was to be pro turning all the loos gender neutral, but he did try and fund out the other pov from caroline. But he just couldn't hold women's needs in focus.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 12/02/2022 14:22

@floralembroidery

Don't get why people are so keen to see comedians who are basically misogynists? I see enough comments on Twitter for free full of misogynistic crap, I don't feel the slightest inclination to actually pay someone to make those same comments, just because they're a 'name' comedian.

I like my comedians to be funny. Misogyny isn't funny. Ergo I don't go to see misogynist comedians. Same reason I don't go to see racist comedians. I have no desire to be open minded about racism any more than I do about misogyny. AFAIC, normalising misogyny and financially rewarding misogynists for spreading anti-women propaganda is not something I want to be part of. Why would I pay to hear myself and women in general abused?

I think this depends on how you view comedy - whether it's something to make you snurk, or an art form. Both are true.

I am fascinated by the "punching down" argument that prevents trans issues being put in sets by comedians and gets talented people cancelled and others stifled.

Chapelle wasn't funny (IMO), he told a very lovely story about a TW friend which was sympathetic and not funny, but he was roundly attacked - by a bunch of people who refused to watch his set. It's insane, nothing should be verboten.

I don't think anything should be out of bounds for comedians. You just have to be very, very good to make appalling things funny.

So that's why I like seeing misogynist comedians - not because I enjoy hearing the anti-woman propaganda, but because I enjoy the skill of them building a joke round it. I hadn't thought about it, but I laugh at things that I don't agree with because I'm enjoying the skill of finding a punchline that works - which is very different from a punch.

Plus, if I'm totally honest - the "other side" are a bunch of humourless oiks. No self deprecation allowed, everything is very serious and levity is seen as a threat. I don't want to be that. I don't want to be in a silo.

I'm a feminist, I use MN, but I did laugh at Mary Bourke's observations about this place. She wasn't wrong, it was well written and I found it funny.

WondrousAcorn · 12/02/2022 14:24

@Santiagopink

Saw John bishop recently. No trans stuff in his show but early on in the set there was a very vocal, loud transwoman in the audience so JB engaged with them and rather than take the piss as per the usual way of dealing with hecklers he did the whole stunningvand brave congratulations then said fuck JK. Got a big cheer. Ruined the night for me but actually there was very little that was funny in the set anyway. Just lots of misogyny and old man jokes. Total waste of money.

That is cringingly patronising apart from anything else. The tw I know don’t need to be handled like they’re made of glass. I doubt anyone heckling a comedian needs the aww, bless treatment tbh.

Says it all that such a condescending, reductive and virtue-signalling display gets the thumbs up, whereas you can recognise and treat tw as individuals (ie with respect) but still be a heretical bigot if you don’t also believe they are actually women.

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billydilly · 12/02/2022 14:25

Do you remember the name of the Moran/Glinner thread please? I had a look but couldn't find it

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ZuttZeVootEeeVo · 12/02/2022 15:32

He's lovely and very funny.

But also not very bright if he thinks a man can become a woman.

It's upsetting that men can be funny and charming like Lees, watson and moral and still be very misogynistic. But that's life. I'm just glad it's not me having to live and bring up children with the fuckers.

WhereYouLeftIt · 12/02/2022 15:50

@MaChienEstUnDick

If you get the chance to see Simon Evans show The Work of the Devil you should. Talking about the content will spoil the show but its about identity but tackled intelligently, though it does start off quite Daily Mail. It made me think a lot, which I like.

I saw this show about a month before the first lockdown, I thought it was brilliant even before he reached that part of the show. First saw him years ago and try to see him whenever he tours.

Manderleyagain · 12/02/2022 15:53

@billydilly

Do you remember the name of the Moran/Glinner thread please? I had a look but couldn't find it

I wonder if it's gone. Moran & glinner is mentioned In a thread called Jack appleby from 2018 but I can't paste the link for some reason. And there's no detail but it reads like it had been discussed here and I remember it being discussed here too.

NitroNine · 12/02/2022 16:58

I’ve wondered for a while if Minchin might have caught some heat for Matilda: The Musical

This 2013 “Salon” article completely ignores the origins of the production & thus context of British theatre traditions in which the original casting decision was made (taking American exceptionalism to a whole other place there). Miss Trunchbull does less singing than some other characters - but the author isn’t at all interested in the need for the actor to be able to comfortably cover the vocal range Minchin wrote for the part It is bobbing between the book & the musical, but in both cases, this blogger makes the obvious rebuttals very well.

If Minchin has had TRAs come for him over Trunchbull being played by a man (though we know there’s not been a huge to-do) he’s likely to have become somewhat less sympathetic to the idea TWAW. To be honest, if it’s not gained traction as something that’s problematic, I’d really like to know why - especially given the (frankly embarrassing) claims there’s transphobia in the Harry Potter books from people utterly bent on proving JK Rowling is Transphobe-in-Chief of TERF Island & has basically laid waste to the not merely the UK’s trans population but the global one, such is the literal violence of her words & the boundless power of the middle aged woman.

If Minchin HAS received any allegations of transphobia I’d also very much like to know how many were accompanied by threats of violence. His - apparently - not being challenged certainly supports what we’ve seen in terms of men being less likely to be challenged/questioned for “offences” women would be immediately & summarily prosecuted*-persecuted for. Equally, if he does ever get told he must Do Better, I wonder if he will understand the [male] privilege that protects him from rape & death threats…

*in the [social media] court(s) of public opinion

HoyaSaxa · 12/02/2022 22:02

Dominic Sandbrook on Kathleen Stock. It’s a cracker.

I was so pleased to read this. I bloody love The Rest is History.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10090133/DOMINIC-SANDBROOK-asks-hope-free-speech-cradles-learning.html

Manderleyagain · 15/02/2022 13:00

Hoyasaxa thanks for that. That's pretty clear and unequivocal.