Why surrogacy should be banned

[DomesticatedZombie]

• article from Stefanie Bode.

'It’s always harmful. It harms our health, it exploits our bodies; it’s dependent on global inequalities and makes them worse; it violates our dignity, our physical integrity and many others of our human rights. It is a form of slavery (of women and children), and obviously it’s violence against women and children. It makes babies into commodities. It’s very cruel and inhumane to women and babies to separate a baby from its mother. '

www.filia.org.uk/latest-news/2022/2/8/why-surrogacy-should-be-banned

@lavendarleopards no I’m sorry- you are reaching. Not really all that likely.

@Comedycook

The more I read about surrogacy, egg sharing, selling embryos, the more I think it should all just be banned. Having children the old fashioned way has left us with nearly 8 billion people on the planet, over populated yet here we are coming up with more ethically dubious ways to create more people.

I think human beings need to accept that if they can't have children for whatever reason then that's that. Yes, I'm sure it must be heartbreaking but we are talking about actual babies not consumer goods that you can order on demand

Do you have any children?

@Silverswirl
Oh I can only assume you're asking me because you think if I haven't experienced infertility then I should keep my mouth shut on such issues....am I right?

Luggage I have just read that too. I do hope they get out, the poor baby doesn't deserve this on top of everything else.

There’s a British couple in the Ukraine doing sad face stories because the baby born by surrogate hasn’t got a passport so they’re stuck there. They went to Ukraine because of their liberal surrogacy laws and now want help.

They'll get out and leave the baby's mother to take her chances with war.

Reminds me of when Israel chartered a jet to fly out the babies born via surrogate mother at the time of the Nepal earthquake, leaving the mothers to take their chances.

British couple in Ukraine say they need to leave but can't get the emergency travel
Documents for the baby they bought.

So it didn't stop people during global pandemic and it won't stop them under the threat of war. The U.K. officials will help of course, but these two very serious events haven't stopped people exploiting the poor women of Ukraine and buying babies from this country.

www.thenational.scot/news/national/19920494.families-face-anxious-wait-ukraine-born-babies-issued-uk-passports/

Did you notice that the surrogate mother wasn't mentioned? Not even as 'surrogate'.

The primal wound and the effect of separation of mother and baby on the child growing up is often mentioned. But imagine growing up and finding that your parents bought you cheap,y from an impoverished woman and left her to take her chances with war (or earthquake in the case of the Nepal babies). Imagine finding out just how heartless and irresponsible your parents were. Won't these children grow up and wonder what happened to their mothers?

@OchonAgusOchonOh I’m not condoning her use of a surrogate, as I said. She already had two healthy children. I just think if a real person is going to be used as an example of something then their experience should be described accurately, not made up/minimised to fit a particular narrative.

imagine growing up and finding that your parents bought you cheap,y from an impoverished woman and left her to take her chances with war

Pretty chilling. Knowingly exploiting a woman, using her like a disposable thing, does not sound like a good start to parenting or family life.

@DomesticatedZombie

imagine growing up and finding that your parents bought you cheap,y from an impoverished woman and left her to take her chances with war

Pretty chilling. Knowingly exploiting a woman, using her like a disposable thing, does not sound like a good start to parenting or family life.

...And a good enough reason to never tell the child they were born this way.

Donor conception registers rely on the child being told they were conceived with gametes from someone other than their legal parents, the same would apply for surrogacy.

(I suppose an adult may question why there were no family pics of their mum whilst pregnant but that's easily explained away.)

They are a heterosexual couple and quite possibly the full genetic parents, ( providing both eggs and sperm) of the baby so it's entirely likely some such couples will never tell their child the truth about the circumstances of their birth.
I don't know if the baby will have a Ukraine birth certificate or be reissued a fictional British one.

Yes there seems to be zero concern towards the mother or the body they rented as they probably view her.

It’s very cruel and inhumane to women and babies to separate a baby from its mother. '

What about donor egg babies? I don't consider using egg donors to have a child any less inhumane than surrogacy

Many egg donors are also impoverished women or women desperate to have their own child so "sell" their own eggs to fund their IVF treatment

[quote oatlattetogo]@OchonAgusOchonOh I’m not condoning her use of a surrogate, as I said. She already had two healthy children. I just think if a real person is going to be used as an example of something then their experience should be described accurately, not made up/minimised to fit a particular narrative.[/quote]
Fair enough.

I have a close relative who did surrogacy for her gay friends and as far as I’m concerned everyone was very happy with the outcome.

I just don’t agree with the view of because a woman comes from a poor country, therefore she doesn’t have a choice.
Especially coming from a Western rich/middle class woman.
It’s very patronising.

Is there a study on why a woman would offer herself for surrogacy?
Is there a chance she may actually want to do it?

I would wonder what was lacking in their lives that they felt they could get by being a surrogate.

I just don’t agree with the view of because a woman comes from a poor country, therefore she doesn’t have a choice
Especially coming from a Western rich/middle class woman.
It’s very patronising

Oh purlease. Do you also think that children in developing countries who sift through mounds of rubbish to earn a pittance are doing it out of choice and to suggest otherwise is just patronising?

@Hoppinggreen

I would wonder what was lacking in their lives that they felt they could get by being a surrogate.

Money is the usual answer to that.

@Hoppinggreen

I would wonder what was lacking in their lives that they felt they could get by being a surrogate.

I read this blog which explored this a little, money is one of the reasons but this review of the surrogate mothers featured in the BBC programme pulls out that low self esteem or suicidal thoughts or even looking for lifelong friendships are also reasons women sign up for it.

stopsurrogacynowuk.org/2021/05/31/surrogacy-in-the-media-a-review-of-bbc-threes-the-surrogates-long-read/

I just don’t agree with the view of because a woman comes from a poor country, therefore she doesn’t have a choice.
Especially coming from a Western rich/middle class woman.
It’s very patronising.

It's patronising to consider that poverty can be oppressive? I see. We should really stop all charitable donations, foreign aid, forthwith, in that case. God forbid anyone patronise anyone, eh? Let them all get on with their noble and brave pursuit of money in this best of all possible worlds!

I have two adopted daughters, my youngest was placed in my care the day of her birth with her birth mothers consent. Sadly bm was not able to care for her child so she chose to allow this so that my dd could have the best chance possible.
Not for one second did I underestimate the damage that taking my dd away from her birth mother did. She was familiar with her heartbeat, knew her inside out. Books such as the primal wound deal with this is detail.
I have adopted but I oppose surrogacy for that reason. Adoption is sometimes necessary, surrogacy isn't and to coldly and deliberately cause trauma to a innocent child is to my mind not ok.

@whataboutlove

I am in Ireland. Not a week goes by when there isn't a sad story of infertility in the newspaper that ends with a happy couple and a cute baby through surrogacy. It is a massive campaign to normalise it. Couples complain then about the legal situation they have created for these children because there is no legislation for surrogacy in Ireland. Yet they entered into these arrangements knowing this.

At the same time there has been huge national discussion about mother and baby homes and the forced removal and adoption of children in the past. And the need now for those children to know their past and the importance of identity. The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

There will be a reckoning in about 30 years. Another tribunal and wondering how we let this happen.

I agree.

I can't believe that there are some people who don't realise (or don't want to realise) the huge harm that is done to an infant to remove them from their birth mothers.
In adoption this might be a necessary evil, but surrogacy is just wrong in my eyes.
I'm sure we will hear more from these surrogacy babies when they become adults and can describe the effects it has had on them.
That's putting aside the slavery aspect which obviously is horrific too

I just don’t agree with the view of because a woman comes from a poor country, therefore she doesn’t have a choice.
Especially coming from a Western rich/middle class woman.
It’s very patronising.

Gosh how awful of us rich (*checks bank account) middle class women to care about the welfare of women less fortunate than ourselves in different jurisdictions. Of course they're not being exploited. Of course they just love gestating babies for rich westerners (not the ones who are concerned for their welfare).

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2018/9/13/ukraines-baby-factories-the-human-cost-of-surrogacy

@Linguini

What would you say to someone who has adopted a baby?

What would you say to someone who becomes a step parent? Comparing apples and oranges hon, adoption and surrogacy are completely different processes, try again 🙄

@Mama1980

I have two adopted daughters, my youngest was placed in my care the day of her birth with her birth mothers consent. Sadly bm was not able to care for her child so she chose to allow this so that my dd could have the best chance possible. Not for one second did I underestimate the damage that taking my dd away from her birth mother did. She was familiar with her heartbeat, knew her inside out. Books such as the primal wound deal with this is detail. I have adopted but I oppose surrogacy for that reason. Adoption is sometimes necessary, surrogacy isn't and to coldly and deliberately cause trauma to a innocent child is to my mind not ok.

Thank you for sharing this personal story, and effectively and succinctly put.

As a slight aside, I do worry that as surrogacy increases adoption will decrease. Every story I read promotes surrogacy over and above adoption, saying how hard it is (and it is, for good reason, a very detailed and lengthy process).

Brian Dowling has been in the press recently saying how surrogacy laws need to be relaxed so it is easier in Ireland. He had previous extolled the virtues of adoption.

I realise there is little research into adoption, much less surrogacy, but I wonder what the overall impact there is if childless couples seeking parenthood prefer to buy a baby from overseas rather than look to give a family and home to a child who could be adopted.