What is the biological definition of a woman (and man)?

[Wombat2WombatCombat]

I understand the argument for single sex spaces, but just for the avoidance of any doubt, does anyone have an exact, biological definition of a woman (or man) that we can hold people to? If we want to enforce the idea of single-sex spaces, we will need an exact criteria to determine who is or isn’t a ‘real’ woman, so I was wondering if anyone could tell me exactly what that is?

You are permitted to create a single space if it’s a proportionate measure to achieve a legitimate aim. You are not entitled to a single sex space, nor are you breaking the law if you enter a space designated for the opposite sex. Breaking the policy of the company creating it maybe, but not the law

You may have a point here. We are too reliant on the idea that men will be respectful and considerate when there is much evidence that some will just not. So are you saying we should make it illegal because some men are so intent on pissing all over women's rights? Will that be what it takes for some men to just back the fuck off?

I take it that @RainbowBridge67 has never heard of safeguarding.

I am simply fundamentally opposed to discrimination on the basis of immutable characteristics. For some reason, trans people are the only minority group expected to put up with such discrimination.

If transwomen are not to be in women's prisons or women's sports, what discrimination do you think they are experiencing?

Is discrimination against women OK then because they are a majority group?

So its "discrimination" to keep biological males out of female spaces?
You do know that 99% of sexual crimes are committed by penis havers?

Trans people aren't the only group expected to put up with it.
We also don't want men who identify as men in our spaces either.

The word you are missing is proportionate

It is sensible to have discrimination based on sex in sone cases because on balance it is a good thing. You know things like keeping women safe , letting them participate in society

Transpeople have 2 valid options - sex based ( which are gender neutral ) or push for more unisex options . They don't need to take away single sex spaces.

Negative experience with individuals belonging to a group do not justify wholesale discrimination against the entire group.

Taken to its extreme this means all single sex spaces should be abandoned because they discriminate against decent men.

@Bunty55

When Julian Clary was asked if he and his husband would have children, he replied 'no because I don't have a womb'.

I think that just about sums it up really

This

@RVN123

"So its "discrimination" to keep biological males out of female spaces?"

Trans women aren't "biological males", but yes.

I teach in a girls' school. Do you think my students are not entitled to have a single sex school? Study after study has shown girls do better in a single sex environment.

@EdithStourton

I take it that *@RainbowBridge67* has never heard of safeguarding.

Your idea of "safeguarding" is queerphobic garbage.

[quote RainbowBridge67]@Wombat2WombatCombat

Negative experience with individuals belonging to a group do not justify wholesale discrimination against the entire group.

There are straight women who had bad experiences with lesbians, but it would be out of line for them to demand a safe space from lesbians.

Likewise, a white woman having a bad experience with a black person is no argument for racial segregation.

I am simply fundamentally opposed to discrimination on the basis of immutable characteristics. For some reason, trans people are the only minority group expected to put up with such discrimination.[/quote]
As long as the provision of prisons, showers, toilets etc is equitably applied to both male and female there is no group that is being discriminated against.

Separate facilities does not = discrimination. Maybe @RainbowBridge67 is another one whose understand of words is limited?

And bingo for bringing in black women and lesbians!

[quote RainbowBridge67]@RVN123

"So its "discrimination" to keep biological males out of female spaces?"

Trans women aren't "biological males", but yes.[/quote]
Errr yeah. By definition a trans woman is male. Otherwise they wouldn't trans. Or maybe you don't like definitions? It's a common theme it seems.

Trans women aren't "biological males", but yes.

Another transphobe trying to deny what it is to be trans. We see you.

@titchy

"Errr yeah. By definition a trans woman is male. Otherwise they wouldn't trans."

By definition, trans women transition to female. Look up what transition means. It means changing from one state to another.

"Or maybe you don't like definitions?"

By dictionary definitions, trans women are women.

@bishophaha

You're nowhere as clever as you think.

[quote RainbowBridge67]@RVN123

"So its "discrimination" to keep biological males out of female spaces?"

Trans women aren't "biological males", but yes.[/quote]
Really? Since when have transitioned males gone back to denying biological facts?

We were told over and over that this denial was not happening.

Yet, you are telling us now that transitioned males are not male. So, for instance, you are very happy for those people to receive blood from a once pregnant female?

Your idea of "safeguarding" is queerphobic garbage.

Safeguarding is based on fact. Not on feelings.

Not by law in the UK, unless someone can share some other piece of legislation I’m unaware of that contradicts this

@Wombat2WombatCombat I'm unclear what you mean. What do you mean by "by law"? Contradicts what?

@LaChanticleer

Dr Hilton talks about variations at about 20 minutes in.

I’ve just had a quick skip through but there didn’t seem to be anything about whether intersex people are male or female at the 20 minute mark - do you have an exact time stamp for the part you were referring to? I also checked the article in the description, but that actually said that intersex people do not fit into binary male/female definitions

@titchy

"Separate facilities does not = discrimination."

Right, seperate but equal, huh?

Are rainbow you ignore the facts that harm does occur

Let's ignore the fact that not all transwomen are good people ( because s surprising number of imprisoned sex offenders are trans ) - let's ignore that and pretend transpeople are incapable of harming women

Harm occurs throughMental harm caused by previous trauma triggered by the male body
Harm occurs through men lying and pretending to be trans

Trans women most definitely ARE biological males.

Or are you a biology denier too?

Honestly, you guys just make yourselves look ridiculous when you come out with such drivel.

We would be much more likely to respect the TW that actually recognise biological sex and be able to engage in logical discussion.
When you say that TW are not biological males it makes any further conversation from you redundant.

In what way are TW NOT biological males?

@Helleofabore

Your idea of "safeguarding" is queerphobic garbage.

Safeguarding is based on fact. Not on feelings.

Actually it's literally based on your feelings.

By definition, trans women transition to female.

And you are spreading some very dangerous misinformation. Telling this to transitioned males is incredibly dangerous for their health.