Louis Theroux: Sex work is valid work

[Hestyo]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6b668836-8849-11ec-a837-0153f5f4adaf?shareToken=82f93f7a57c728c82da0d575b5201d55

"It’s not something you’re especially proud of using. But there are times in your life when you can’t get a decent meal, or you’re in a rush, or you’re just trying to get a need met."

Theroux added that his children were approaching an age where their internet searches may lead them to pornography. “I have said to them, ‘When you see porn, if this is something you’ve stumbled across, just so you know, that’s not the real world. That’s not how people have sex,’ ” he added.

He said sex work should be seen as an acceptable alternative to a traditional career. Forbidden America will investigate the OnlyFans phenomenon, which has given performers their own online following and financial independence.

@DisappearingGirl

I really dislike the "sex work is work" slogan because I think it conflates two very different arguments:

1. That we should accept sex work exists, avoid criminalising the (often vulnerable) sex workers, and protect and support the workers as far as we can - I agree with this and I think it is the point that OhWhyNot is making

1. That sex work is as good a career choice as any other, not harmful to the workers, and I'd be happy for my daughter to do it - I definitely don't agree with this.

I guess it's similar to the argument for legalising drugs. Most people in favour of that are wanting to avoid criminalising addicts and young drug runners (ie similar to argument 1 above). It's not that they think drugs are brilliant and we should all encourage our kids to use them (similar to argument 2).

I think you are absolutely right with this but support for point 1 is taken bY the ‘sex positive/lighten up grandma’ crowd to be tacit support for point 2

Basically it’s forced teaming again

Ach, they are all just a bunch of neo-Jim Davidsons who have convinced themselves they aren't repulsive thinkers because they don't say racist things.

Bugger to you, Louis. I see through your mask.

It is the oldest industry in the world

I really hate that stupid myth! Even more in its usual form, that prostitution is the oldest ‘profession’. Where’s the evidence that women sold access to their bodies before doing anything else that could be called work? Such as gathering food for more than their own use? Or tending animals? Or looking after other women’s children? Or making tools?

Such stupid, thoughtless bullshit.

[quote PurgatoryOfPotholes]Men will claim they support sex workers and scream “sex work is real work.” But at the end of the day, talk is cheap. They’ll buy your content and stop you from moving up in life.

twitter.com/Woke_Misogyny/status/1490601146213445634?t=1m3irroiZgNb-q80p5LaQA&s=19[/quote]
What a prick, Techbros love to parrot the ‘sex work is real work’ line and they love a ‘pet’ sex positive woman with tattoos who is non technical on the periphery so they can pretend they support women whilst sexually harassing technical women working in tech and sabotaging their career by any means possible at the same time.

So glad I’ve left, I miss the tech but don’t miss the rest

Louis seems to have changed his tune on this. I remember reading an interview with him a while ago where he was asked what had disturbed him the most in his career and he said investigating porn and prostitution had been the most difficult.

Countries that have what we view as often progressive attitudes towards sex and what we value as progress in women’s rights have a thriving sex industry

As in the Netherlands which is sexist to the core and if you object you get told you are not 'progressive'? Just look at the two latest scandals with Ajax and the Voice. The Netherlands has a massive problem with the prevailing attitude towards women. I've lived through that for decades.

Plus as someone else pointed out, as women in the Netherlands also have other options such as education, there aren't enough prostitutes to meet demand. So poor women are trafficked in. And as being a prostitute is legal, no one checks on the situation anymore leaving the trafficked women to fend for themselves.

Progressive only seems to cater to men. As usual

I said that it’s part of society that is not going to go away.

It could go away if strict laws were passed that punish the makers, distributors, and users.

He views the women as interesting zoo specimens. A curiosity

He doesn't have to think about them too deeply because it's not something that will ever affect him. His sons are vanishingly unlikely to end up selling their bodies.

@OhWhyNot

“I rather see women being protected from
pimps and violent clients and more with access to good sexual health screening. If we pretend it’s not there is it’s not work that doesn’t happen we just sweep this issues under the carpet“

How would they ever really be protected in practice?

Isn’t it like ‘legal’ ivory where the more that’s allowed the more it proliferates and the more trafficking will happen?

And Only Fans will come to be seen as a real job option for girls and women.

And there will be more punters because ‘it’s legal’ so moral/fine.

No it won’t it will just push it underground and make it more dangerous for women involved

When have laws or religion that for many holds more fear stopped men pursuing sex (forced or bought which is often forced)

“Clymene

He views the women as interesting zoo specimens. A curiosity“

@Clymene
I think this seems highly likely.

Why will there be more punters

Either a man feels it’s ok to purchase sex or they don’t

We can bring our sons up to respect women more and change attitudes that sex is a desire not a need (which I feel drives male entitlement)

But that isn’t going to change everyone’s views

And morals so often go out of the window ….

Gross. We have gone so far backwards.

And yes, sex work has been part of human society for millennia. So has child sex abuse, sex trafficking, execution of 'witches' and the patriarchy.
Something being ancient doesn't make it good.
And being anti-sex work isn't anti-sex workers. This is like saying you're anti-children for being opposed to child labour.

Its work that is exchanged for money.

Sex at times is traded by adults who are consenting

Children can’t consent

@OhWhyNot

Why will there be more punters

Either a man feels it’s ok to purchase sex or they don’t

We can bring our sons up to respect women more and change attitudes that sex is a desire not a need (which I feel drives male entitlement)

But that isn’t going to change everyone’s views

And morals so often go out of the window ….

There will be more punters because it is ok to purchase sex, as sex work is work so there is really no difference between buying the use of a womans body cavities as there is to buying the skills and hands of say a brick layer. It is normalised. It is seen as fine. Not a problem. So more men will feel it is ok to do so. After all, other men do it. Increase of demand but not of workers. So get them from outside the country under false pretenses and force them into this line of work. Which is acceptable and normal work so why are women complaining they don't want to do it...

“OhWhyNot

Why will there be more punters

Either a man feels it’s ok to purchase sex or they don’t “

No one is that inflexible in their ideas of what is acceptable. People are swayed by what they think the general consensus is, the idea that ‘everyone is doing it so it must be ok’.

In Germany there are many more than here I believe. I heard the statistic the other day. Can anyone recall this?

Re. protecting prostituted women from pimps, both Germany and the Netherlands ("progressive countries") legalised pimping when they legalised prostitution. The logic was that there would be no need for the ban on pimping anymore as the state would now be regulating the work, so women wouldn't be dependent on pimps anymore. Instead 'exploiting prostitutes' was outlawed. Despite this pimping didn't decrease, and it was admitted that actually its very hard to tell when the women are being exploited and coerced. "What makes pimping impervious to government decrees... is that the relationship concerned is not that of agent and client, but domestic violence."
In one study 64% of women described their pimp as their boyfriend or man.
And as we all know how shit our police currently are at dealing with domestic violence, I really don't trust them to deal with domestic violence in an even more complicated setting. Regulation hasn't worked in other countries.

Then there is something to learn from where the policies went wrong

Different countries/cultures have different attitudes towards sexual work and men buying sex but it’s in every society even the most pious. I am not sure if more German men buy sex but still a huge number of British men do and guys we would think are really nice upstanding members of society, regardless of society attitudes (certainly didn’t stop Victorians)

I think I heard Julie Bindel discuss the statistics and she said about 11% British
35% German.

Someone posted this on this board 2nd February

I don’t have time to listen again right now, but this is where a heard her mention a statistic related to this.

Is purchased consent actual consent?

Women who work in the sex industry should not be stigmatized for doing so but nor is the euphemistically named 'sex work' work like any other - it simply isn't.

I'm happy to listen to Theroux's take on it being work like other work when he is working in the industry himself and not before.

@QuinkWashable

I don’t judge people for liking porn

I do. Read the titles of the videos on the front page of a porn site. I absolutely judge someone who goes to a site that proudly proclaims it's full of women being abused like that.

Women being forced into marriage by society isn't them 'trading' their body for christ's sake! It's not a free choice like selling your handicrafts! It's for survival, it's coerced! Give women access to education, contraception, don't ban them from work, make sure everyone can have a roof over their head and food in their bellies, and see how many of them chose to be prostituted.

Well said.

You misread what i wrote QuinkWashable

I said nothing about accessing sites or what porn. But erotica and porn many people enjoy. Do you know out of your friends and colleagues or all the people you like who likes porn I doubt it. Of course it should be regulated better

There are women who have access to education and roofs over their heads and make the choice. Why for a number of different reasons

The vast majority or women who are involved in sex work don’t have such choices but we don’t live in a world of such perfection that world doesn’t exist. There will be women who prefer sex work to hours in a factory but both work both have to to feed their families neither is choice it’s a necessity

And no purchased consent isn’t always consent

Regarding Germany, a few years back, I rented a random German romantic comedy film for the family. Its age rating according to the German film classification system - free for everyone to watch.

The lead character goes to a brothel (possibly a superbrothel) while he's moping about his break-up, and has sex with a foreign woman there who doesn't understand a word of German. And it's all played off as a joke in the film.

(Film was classified at an 18 here.)