Louis Theroux: Sex work is valid work

[Hestyo]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6b668836-8849-11ec-a837-0153f5f4adaf?shareToken=82f93f7a57c728c82da0d575b5201d55

"It’s not something you’re especially proud of using. But there are times in your life when you can’t get a decent meal, or you’re in a rush, or you’re just trying to get a need met."

Theroux added that his children were approaching an age where their internet searches may lead them to pornography. “I have said to them, ‘When you see porn, if this is something you’ve stumbled across, just so you know, that’s not the real world. That’s not how people have sex,’ ” he added.

He said sex work should be seen as an acceptable alternative to a traditional career. Forbidden America will investigate the OnlyFans phenomenon, which has given performers their own online following and financial independence.

I'm a former sex worker (not prostitution but adjacent) and agree it should be regulated and the women who work in that industry should receive help, therapy and coaching if they want it to get out of it of the field, again if they want to. For me sex work was a force for good as I was able to work very little and devote most of my time to my studies and ended up (after yes a terrible childhood) a high achiever in a great professional career. Another woman I worked with used the money she saved to open a shop that's been very successful. For others I worked with it lead to a downward spiral of prostitution, drugs, etc.

Sex work is absolutely not right for the vast majority of women and my fear is that it could end up that job centres try to push women into these sorts of careers, etc. But if it's done as a choice it can sometimes be as it was for me a way to a much better life than I otherwise would have had.

Accepting that it is work puts pressure on those in need to do the same. Sex is not work. If women are in need a feminist (real one) campaigns for financial support and real work for women. Much easier to say "hey, you gotta do what you gotta do". I am appalled at that argument. It has given up on any idea of women's self determination.

I rather see women being protected from
pimps and violent clients and more with access to good sexual health screening. If we pretend it’s not there is it’s not work that doesn’t happen we just sweep this issues under the carpet

I say do both, as in protect the women who do this work and help them leave. Because let's face it, the minute you say 'sex work is work' you start accepting it as a valid job opportunity and why would anyone spend resources to help women leave what is a valid job opportunity? Women end up at the bottom of the resource pile.

I remember about 20 years ago ,he visited a Brothel in the Nirvada desert .Spoke to young girls and the owners of the place . Seem to be accepting of this arrangement .As long as the girls were "safe" .I cannot understand this mentality .Even if he doesnt have daughters of his own ,does he not have friends or relations with any ? Maybe its time for some reassessment with a less privileged male/female presenter

@sanluca

*I rather see women being protected from pimps and violent clients and more with access to good sexual health screening. If we pretend it’s not there is it’s not work that doesn’t happen we just sweep this issues under the carpet*

I say do both, as in protect the women who do this work and help them leave. Because let's face it, the minute you say 'sex work is work' you start accepting it as a valid job opportunity and why would anyone spend resources to help women leave what is a valid job opportunity? Women end up at the bottom of the resource pile.

Totally agree.

I don’t agree with him but it’s a pretty mainstream view so I don’t feel to surprised. I very much doubt he’d be supportive if his sons decided having anal sex with multiple men on a daily basis was a good alternative to whatever prestigious career he’s got in mind for them though.

I agree with Julie bindels views on sex work so a few points that would be better phrased by her:

Sex work is not “the oldest profession” midwifery is probably the oldest profession. A profession is something where skills are learned and valued. Whereas in sex work young and inexperienced are highly valued.

Saying “it will always exist so let’s allow it safely” is like saying “child abuse will always exist so let’s teach people how to beat kids without causing them permanent damage”

Saying that some women don’t have the skills to go to university and will prefer to do sex work rather than work in factories is just making excuses. When people are in poverty you put food in their mouths not dicks. We should work on providing exit strategies and support. Evidence shows there is a high take up of this type of support.

The Netherlands which is often hailed as a great model of legal prostitution is one of the worst places in the world for human trafficking now.

And finally, wanting to end sex work is not the same as disliking sex workers.

@NotJustACigar I'm sincerely glad that things have worked out for you. For lurkers it is worth making the point that there is other work that students can do to self support when studying. It can be rewarding and fun. I dont want this to become the default option for girls. It is so dangerous for them for so many reasons.

dotty I've seen that episode on Netflix. Found it very unsettling - he seemed excited about the whole thing. I also recall one of the women offering him a free massage. One of them was about 18 and extremely vulnerable. The whole thing was weird. Really not sure how being isolated in the middle of the desert with the pimp and the punters counts as safe either.

I think what I found so uncomfortable was that he was so clearly out of his depth. It was all a very new environment for him and he seemed excited to explore the "surface level" (iyswim) without having the depth of thinking / analysis to ask about the parts of the story that are not being told.

I think this is generally a weakness of his style of documentary / lived experience narrative. It works well in a setting where there are people with different perspectives accessible in one location (eg a hospital ward - patients, family, nurses, doctors) which lets you build up a bigger picture. But when the people you can access easily are all currently invested in presenting only one part of the narrative (This is a safe brothel. We are all fine. Nothing to see here.) it is very misleading. Particularly if the documentary makers don't have the time/ability to dig any further. Or to overcome the fear/threats that may stop others from contributing.

It's extraordinary that in the day and age when 'lived experience' is prized and often considered necessary in the arts, a very privileged English public school male who has never been female, never been poor, never had to do anything desperate for money, and would only ever be the 'customer' in this situation, is seen as the appropriate person to cover this highly controversial and sensitive issue.

If we pretend it’s not there is it’s not work that doesn’t happen we just sweep this issues under the carpet

What nonsense. It’s not either or . Just because people don’t believe SWIW doesn’t mean it’s ignored and issues are swept under the carpet. It’s BECAUSE of the issues that people don’t want swept under the carpet that people don’t support the “SWIW” mantra: the trafficking, the drug addiction, the pimping, the violence, the rape, the male entitlement etc. It’s insulting to tell people who don’t believe this mantra that they don’t think about or don’t care about everything else.

@Dobedodo What a great answer.

Also if sex work is work and we all recognise it as no different to other jobs how do we legislate against sexual harassment in the work place? If my manager adds “daily blowjobs to the senior staff members” to my jobs list how is it different to him adding “‘note taking in meetings with senior staff”? It just doesn’t work.

Shouldn't he have a go at it before he waffles on without a care for the impact on the women involved - and the impact on women in general. Maybe he should shadow a 'sex worker' in their trade. And like if he was shadowing a worker in Tesco, and stack a few items on the shelf, he could offer to do the next client. It is just work, right?

I very much doubt he’d be supportive if his sons decided having anal sex with multiple men on a daily basis was a good alternative to whatever prestigious career he’s got in mind for them though

Absolutely

I am disappointed in him but more fool me, I do subscribe to the ‘if I wouldn’t be happy my children doing this why would i happy with other children doing it’ argument

I have not said people don’t care

I have not said that in any way supporting the work is valid as it’s an exchange for cash or that viewing it as valid work supports sex trafficking or the horrendous abuse suffered by many

For years it’s was ignored not spoken about women looked down on as being not worthy. It’s women working within the industry that have really made the changes to support their colleagues (yes colleagues many really do look out for one another).

It’s not feminists arguing about the issues of male entitlement and paying for sex that has made the work safer for some women it’s far more to do with those actually doing something to support women not those trying to change others views on the sex industry

Many ex sex workers have worked to make the work safer arguing about male entitlement, feminist writers endless pondering (often seems quite a fetish in itself) of the values of sex work has not made the changes

Are less percentage of men using sex workers there is nothing to suggest they are

Countries that have what we view as often progressive attitudes towards sex and what we value as progress in women’s rights have a thriving sex industry

It’s not going away the work is an exchange for money what that means to a woman’s life differs but all should be safe and protected

[quote PurgatoryOfPotholes]Men will claim they support sex workers and scream “sex work is real work.” But at the end of the day, talk is cheap. They’ll buy your content and stop you from moving up in life.

twitter.com/Woke_Misogyny/status/1490601146213445634?t=1m3irroiZgNb-q80p5LaQA&s=19[/quote]
What a bastard. Especially the self-serving lie.

• I subscribed to check it out. This further proves my support to women with OF. -

When he told the boss someone with an OF account wasn’t the image the company wanted, he didn’t add that he was somebody who subscribes. Hypocritical shit.

I really dislike the "sex work is work" slogan because I think it conflates two very different arguments:

1. That we should accept sex work exists, avoid criminalising the (often vulnerable) sex workers, and protect and support the workers as far as we can - I agree with this and I think it is the point that OhWhyNot is making

1. That sex work is as good a career choice as any other, not harmful to the workers, and I'd be happy for my daughter to do it - I definitely don't agree with this.

I guess it's similar to the argument for legalising drugs. Most people in favour of that are wanting to avoid criminalising addicts and young drug runners (ie similar to argument 1 above). It's not that they think drugs are brilliant and we should all encourage our kids to use them (similar to argument 2).

[quote PurgatoryOfPotholes]Men will claim they support sex workers and scream “sex work is real work.” But at the end of the day, talk is cheap. They’ll buy your content and stop you from moving up in life.

twitter.com/Woke_Misogyny/status/1490601146213445634?t=1m3irroiZgNb-q80p5LaQA&s=19[/quote]
This is the most sickening and enraging item that utterly exposes young and old men to be the deeply vile hypocrites they are in their essence. With that pseudo faux naive ‘did I do something wrong absolve me of guilt here’ framing of destroying that girl’s chances.

NAMALT blah blah but honestly I’m beginning to feel like a man hating feminist of old. This world is going in the wrong direction of protecting girl’s and women’s right on speed. And the misogyny is getting more subtle and yet more dangerous under the label of ‘progressivism’ all that time.

The arguments that I’ve had with my DD about how OF and sex work and prostitution is not female empowerment. But that’s the message that she’s hearing over and over again. What all her friend’s agree with. Apparently I’m a ‘Tory’ for suggesting lap dancing is not all about girls being powerful (as explained to her by her male friends). And being a young liberal girl she wants to be supportive of other’s choices. It’s so depressing.

But I think "sex work is work" sneakily pushes people in favour of argument 1 to find themselves supporting argument 2.

I have Louis Theroux's Weird Weekends on DVD; it was the first DVD I ever owned. I don't recall that the overriding message was that this was a great career but will need to rewatch it. I do remember he seemed taken aback by the young lad from the sticks who was doing gay porn to pay the bills, describing him as "too nice" to get caught up in that sort of thing.

I have rewatched his original Jimmy Savile episode, as that makes for very interesting viewing.

I did wonder where LT's moral compass was on this as he has seen the damage that porn and prostitution does, he has no excuses. Other men can more easily turn a blind eye and prioritise their orgasms. But LT has interviewed women, heard their stories in their own words and still he normalises and glamourises the exploitation of women.

So as for his moral compass, well it turns out he doesn't have one. Yet another man willing to sacrifice women on the altar of his pleasure, and this one knows. What an arsehole.

And the misogyny is getting more subtle and yet more dangerous under the label of ‘progressivism’ all that time.

It really is.

Oh FFS!!!! 😑😑😑😑

"Over privileged male expounds view on something that doesn’t affect him or anyone in his social circle

Next!!"

Pretty much.

I don’t judge people for liking porn

I do. Read the titles of the videos on the front page of a porn site. I absolutely judge someone who goes to a site that proudly proclaims it's full of women being abused like that.

Women being forced into marriage by society isn't them 'trading' their body for christ's sake! It's not a free choice like selling your handicrafts! It's for survival, it's coerced! Give women access to education, contraception, don't ban them from work, make sure everyone can have a roof over their head and food in their bellies, and see how many of them chose to be prostituted.