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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mridul Wadwha and the thought police

465 replies

IamSarah · 03/02/2022 17:58

Great article in Spiked Online about Mridul Wadwha's latest shenanigans:

www.spiked-online.com/2022/02/01/the-thought-police-are-here/

To briefly summarise:

  • Mridul was born male
  • Mridul is legally male with no GRC
  • Mridul is the CEO of Edinburgh Rape crisis
  • Mridul claims women who want female only rape crisis services are bigoted and should 'reframe their trauma'
  • The CEO of a domestic violence charity Nicola Murray stopped referring women to Mridul's rape crisis service due to Mridul's misogyny
  • Mridul reported Nicola Murray to the police for committing a hate crime
  • The police actually visited Nicola Murray to question her thinking
OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Goatsaregreat · 06/02/2022 12:56

Wow RoaringtoLangClegintheDark Fabulous post Flowers

littlbrowndog · 06/02/2022 13:01

Yep roaring

All of that

Helleofabore · 06/02/2022 13:01

So. I have had a quick look using various search engines, and I can see no mainstream discussion about the shortage of medical examiners by Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre or their CEO.

It seems almost like barely is pointing out just how hypocritical that tactic of demonising Johann Lamont was.

IF it was so vital that the discussion was had, why has it not been continued out of parliament?

What was discussion in parliament meant to achieve right then and there in the passing of that bill that was of such great importance that women were demonised for supposedly blocking it, that could not be achieved with a strong debate in the public sphere since then?

Or, as has been suggested, a poster who in heavily invested in the progress of prioritising gender over sex, even in situations when sex actually matters, has continued a foolish social media stance when it seems rather clear that it was indeed a tactic to get Johann Lamont and women to STFU.

So.... again. A discussion that is very important and should have been continued after the bill passed has not been kept in front of the media to pressure the Scottish government to get more female medical examiners hired.

But... a poster continues to assert that hateful women 'hijacked' the debate with an 'anti-trans' amendment.

An amendment that if not actually passed then, would have not been revisited for how long?

And with the growth of males transitioning, and cases of those males already taking positions advertised as being for females, how long until it become an issue? I mean, tomorrow a male medical examiner could declare they are a woman and be presented as being suitable when a traumatised woman or girl requested a female medical examiner.

so..... the situation could change overnight.

barely's assertion that it would not be happening now, could be proven false over night. (and not for the first time either).

But, barely continues to assert that the amendment was not 'worth giving a heed to'.

I know I for one am happy to continue to point out the hypocrisy that has become very apparent here. And:

What kind of mind can deny that right to request a female examiner to a shaking, traumatised woman on the worst day of her life when that person is also the CEO of a rape crisis centre?

TurquoiseBaubles · 06/02/2022 13:02

@RoaringtoLangClegintheDark

When the GRA was passed, it was meant to cater for a tiny minority of people, around 5,000, and about a third of them biologically female. So only about 3,333 biologically male people involved.

Some foresighted people raised objections at the time. These were waved away, and one of the (supposed) justifications for so doing was the tiny numbers involved, how the numbers of biologically male trans people were too small to have any impact on the day to day lives of women.

Fast forward less than two decades and look where we are now. Exponentially greater numbers of biologically male people identifying as trans and demanding access to women’s spaces and services, most of them still clearly and visibly male. The impact on women grows daily, from the shift to “gender neutral” toilets that most women really, really don’t want, to the lack of single sex provision for rape survivors, with so much else in between. The landscape has shifted in ways that weren’t imagined by the lawmakers at the time, and everybody on every side of this issue knows this.

And yet, despite this clear and obvious precedent, we are supposed to believe that we can trust trans rights activists when they say that because there are currently no biologically male people who “identify as” female working as medical examiners, that means there never will be at some point in the future?

It’s preposterous and absolutely mired in misogyny. Women don’t have the right to ask for a cast iron safeguard that female means female, for their peace of mind, because it makes some male people feel bad. Women’s needs are on a scale of priority many orders lower than male people’s feelings.

Oh barley. Are you so convinced of your moral rectitude that you really don’t see how you give yourself away with every post you make? Haranguing women over and over again for our supposed misdemeanours, whether “transphobia” or racism or whatever other mud you want to sling at us, all the while so blithely, supremely ignorant of the crushing weight of bigotry that informs every single one of your views?

You are not a crusader against oppression. You are the oppressor. You are actively perpetuating the oldest, most deeply rooted form of oppression there is: that of the female sex by the male sex. You want to curb our human rights, our right to name and organise against our oppression; you want to demonise and criminalise us for standing up against the endemic abuse we suffer.

You are the apartheid government calling the ANC “terrorists”. You are the fat cat bosses banning trades unions. You are the white supremacist demanding black people sit at the back of the bus. [All these are analogies, just for the sake of clarity. I’m not suggesting you actually would have sided against Rosa Parks, just that you are, perhaps unwittingly, on a par with those who did, in your role in the sex-based axis of oppression.] You want us outlawed, prevented from organising, confined to the back of the bus.

Perhaps that’s why you’re so inexplicably, shockingly bristling with rage at us. Perhaps because you know deep down that what you’re doing doesn’t sit well with your supposed world view, your supposed image of yourself as a noble warrior on the side of social justice and freedom.

Perhaps that’s why you hate us so much, because in speaking truth we reveal to you the truly viscerally unpleasant, unjust, male supremacist oppressor side of your nature, a side you really don’t want to acknowledge, don’t want to have to deal with the existence of. Far easier to demonise the women who show up your failings than address those awkward, embarrassing failings, that sit so badly with the image you want to present to the world, and to yourself.

How tragic to think yourself a strident voice in the movement for social progress, only to be actually on a par with those fine men of the Spanish Inquisition and their determination to root out “heresy” (in terms of attitude only, obviously; not the torturing and murdering part, again, just to be clear).

Men/male people like you hate women because we are a constant reminder of your own lack of humanity towards us. You hate us particularly when we challenge you by wanting to be seen as full human beings, in the face of your desire to treat us as service humans, or subhumans. So you scapegoat us, just as men have been doing since the myths of Eve and Pandora were created. Tell us we’re the problem to make yourself feel better about your own appalling treatment of us.

You might con yourself, barley, but you don’t con us.

There are some fantastic posts on this thread. I'm quoting this one in particular as it's absolutely spot on

I wait with interest to see if it's reported.

VestofAbsurdity · 06/02/2022 13:04

I wait with interest to see if it's reported.

I'd bet my house that it is.

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark · 06/02/2022 13:07

Let’s indeed keep asking this fundamental question:

What kind of mind can deny that right to request a female examiner to a shaking, traumatised woman on the worst day of her life when that person is also the CEO of a rape crisis centre?

barleybadminton · 06/02/2022 13:07

You are the apartheid government calling the ANC “terrorists”. You are the fat cat bosses banning trades unions. You are the white supremacist demanding black people sit at the back of the bus. [All these are analogies, just for the sake of clarity. I’m not suggesting you actually would have sided against Rosa Parks, just that you are, perhaps unwittingly, on a par with those who did, in your role in the sex-based axis of oppression.] You want us outlawed, prevented from organising, confined to the back of the bus.

What ludicrous hyperbole. I don't want you outlawed, I'm simply here giving you the debate you so often claim to want.

It is my view that the gender critical movement is harming women, feminism and LGBT people. It is a view shared by many women, feminists and LGBT people. I suspect many second wave feminists would be horrified at what is being pursued in their name and of those those that are still alive many are. And the willingness to work with right wing men in particular could prove devastating for future generations of women should those men get what they want. It may be unpalateable for you to hear but a lot of women actively oppose the gender critical movement not just out of solidarity with trans people but because they can see the potential harm that is being done to women. Many people's vision of feminism is not to accept that male violence is inevitable and as such feminism should be reduced to establishing single sex spaces for safety and ruthlessly policing the borders of them but a radical transformation of society and the end of women being confined to a sex class - genital differences would no longer matter socially as Shulamith Firestone said. I see more of the spirit of many of the original radical feminists in the non binary zoomers and trans millenials than I see in the gender critical movement, stuffed as it is with reactioneries and pompous old men who wouldn't have been given the time of day by the likes of Dworkin and Millet.

And I have asked more than once that people not assume my sex or gender so please don't.

Goatsaregreat · 06/02/2022 13:13

"I don't want you outlawed, I'm simply here giving you the debate you so often claim to want".

There's no doubt that the dislike of women evident in so many of your posts and the many many hours you spend on here scolding and lecturing women appear to be a behaviour associated with a certain type of person.

Grin Grin Grin

Theeyeballsinthesky · 06/02/2022 13:13

I’m all ears as to what harm it does to women to preserve single sex spaces for women

I can of course see why it pisses off men….

Deliriumoftheendless · 06/02/2022 13:15

Many people's vision of feminism is not to accept that male violence is inevitable
Most of us are more interested in women’s vision of feminism- and how are the people arguing it is a necessity for transwomen to use single sex services for women out of safety concerns challenging the inevitability of male violence? Isn’t the argument that transwomen need women’s spaces precisely because of male violence?

Helleofabore · 06/02/2022 13:15

And yet, despite this clear and obvious precedent, we are supposed to believe that we can trust trans rights activists when they say that because there are currently no biologically male people who “identify as” female working as medical examiners, that means there never will be at some point in the future?

It’s preposterous and absolutely mired in misogyny. Women don’t have the right to ask for a cast iron safeguard that female means female, for their peace of mind, because it makes some male people feel bad. Women’s needs are on a scale of priority many orders lower than male people’s feelings.

YES!!

And there are posters on these threads every single day who cannot see the misogyny that forms their posts. And simply cannot understand that readers can see the deep, deep prejudice against women who dare to disagree and enforce their boundaries that is so clear in their posts.

The use of derogatory terms, the constant sparpling, squirelling or whatever term we want to use for the attempts to derail and distract away from the truths that posters want to remain hidden from view.

The positing that some posters are self appointed spokespeople for other groups in the community. Like, you know, middle class women, because... the poster knows a 'few' and fuck me, cannot admit to their tightly held believe that women on this board only fit in one group. They want us in that box so they think they can discredit us using THEIR opinion of what we need against us.

Once you see it, it is very clear that post after post follows the same theme.

Some people in the world are completely infuriated by women who say no to lowering their boundaries and being compelled in their beliefs.

Helleofabore · 06/02/2022 13:19

because in speaking truth we reveal to you the truly viscerally unpleasant, unjust, male supremacist oppressor side of your nature, a side you really don’t want to acknowledge, don’t want to have to deal with the existence of. Far easier to demonise the women who show up your failings than address those awkward, embarrassing failings, that sit so badly with the image you want to present to the world, and to yourself.

Yes to this too.

The constant demonising, the derogation, the derision, the use of 'rhetoric' to make over inflated statements that are always downplayed, it is very obvious across threads and easily comparative across time.

Masdintle · 06/02/2022 13:26

RoaringtoLangClegintheDark 👏👏👏

Helleofabore · 06/02/2022 13:27

It is my view that the gender critical movement is harming women, feminism and LGBT people.

Excellent.

How about you argue the points instead of showing your deeply held prejudices about the women who post on this forum and attacking them?

Or... maybe like your continued assertion as to what 'working class women' really think, it is YOUR view, which is male and NOT from a female perspective that you hold.

And many feminists, and plenty of women who are not feminists, and many lesbians and bisexual feminists and lesbians and bisexual women completely call your opinion out. Every day on this board.

Because you are again there telling us what feminists believe. Like you have told us across different threads now what working class women need, despite working class women telling you that you are wrong. Because.... you know a few working class women.

IamSarah · 06/02/2022 13:28

those women can be accommodated within the existing sector and this is not causing any problems according to staff on the ground.

I am a service user on the ground and I can assure you it is causing massive fucking problems.

Traumatised women are expected to put aside their feelings of discomfort, ignore their boundaries and centre the male in the room. They are expected to talk about being raped in front of the male and ignore every instinct that is screaming not to in order to make the male feel validated and included.

The womens only session I went to which included a trans service user was a disaster. The facilitator pressured us to speak about our experiences. One woman ran out in tears. I've been permanently blocked by the service.

How can you say this is fine Barley? Does the well-being of female survivors mean nothing to you?

OP posts:
334bu · 06/02/2022 13:29

Many people's vision of feminism is not to accept that male violence is inevitable and as such feminism should be reduced to establishing single sex spaces for safety and ruthlessly policing the borders of them but a radical transformation of society and the end of women being confined to a sex class - genital differences would no longer matter socially as Shulamith Firestone said. I see more of the spirit of many of the original radical feminists in the non binary zoomers and trans millenials than I see in the gender critical movement, stuffed as it is with reactioneries and pompous old men who wouldn't have been given the time of day by the likes of Dworkin and Millet.

And until this " Utopia" arrives can we agree to keep all male people of all gender identities out of female only safe spaces as they present statistically a clear and present danger to women.

Helleofabore · 06/02/2022 13:33

Perhaps that’s why you hate us so much, because in speaking truth we reveal to you the truly viscerally unpleasant, unjust, supremacist oppressor side of your nature, a side you really don’t want to acknowledge, don’t want to have to deal with the existence of. Far easier to demonise the women who show up your failings than address those awkward, embarrassing failings, that sit so badly with the image you want to present to the world, and to yourself.

yes

VestofAbsurdity · 06/02/2022 13:38

And until this " Utopia" arrives can we agree to keep all male people of all gender identities out of female only safe spaces as they present statistically a clear and present danger to women.

No chance of that 334bu an inordinate amount of woman and girls must be sacrificed on the altar of this radical transformation for the supposed Utopia. We constantly ask for a number that is deemed acceptable collateral damage, funnily enough those espousing this are never keen to give one.

Helleofabore · 06/02/2022 13:39

No chance of that 334bu an inordinate amount of woman and girls must be sacrificed on the altar of this radical transformation for the supposed Utopia. We constantly ask for a number that is deemed acceptable collateral damage, funnily enough those espousing this are never keen to give one.

n+1 innit?

DomesticatedZombie · 06/02/2022 13:39

the end of women being confined to a sex class

Humans are mammals. Sex is dichotomous*. If we cease to have 'sex classes' we'll cease to exist after one generation.

*academic.oup.com/edrv/article/42/3/219/6159361?login=false

billydilly · 06/02/2022 13:40

It's causing massive fucking problems!! Neither me or my colleagues want this situation but we're powerless to speak out; I don't want to counsel a male bodied client and feel conflicted, it's not fair on me or him.

DomesticatedZombie · 06/02/2022 13:45

@billydilly

I work in this sector. We have to interact with male-bodied people or we lose funding. Not one of my colleagues wants this situation but we do vital work so we grit our teeth and carry on. It's nightmarish.
Thank you for your work. I'm sorry you have to navigate this outrageous situation. We are all doing our best to help sort it and will continue to do so.
Helleofabore · 06/02/2022 13:45

Just to clarify.

The constant demonising, the derogation, the derision, the use of 'rhetoric' to make over inflated statements that are always downplayed, it is very obvious across threads and easily comparative across time.

should be

The constant demonising, the derogation, the derision, the use of 'rhetoric' to make over inflated statements that are always downplayed after being called out (like, oh, yes, you caught me again...), it is very obvious across threads and easily comparative across time.

And frankly, if you poll of 'feminists' is like your poll of working class women, it is most likely very few and probably none outside your own narrow political agenda.

VestofAbsurdity · 06/02/2022 13:46

It is my view that the gender critical movement is harming women, feminism and LGBT people. It is a view shared by many women, feminists and LGBT people. I suspect many second wave feminists would be horrified at what is being pursued in their name and of those those that are still alive many are.

Your view, and you have nothing to back that up.

I am lucky enough to have a wide range of family, friends, colleagues and acquaintances from an extremely wide demographic that covers class, age, nationality, ethnicity, race, political leanings, sex, religion, sexual orientation and even - hold the front page - trans and none of them NONE believe or agree with what you are peddling. Not a single one.

Helleofabore · 06/02/2022 13:51

I suspect many second wave feminists would be horrified at what is being pursued in their name and of those those that are still alive many are

Tell you what. Please back this claim up with evidence from original sources from the actual second wave feminist themselves. And more than just 'one' barely.

Or is this another of your 'rhetorical' statements?