A third female teenager I know has transitioned.

[PermanentTemporary]

This one is only 15, the others were 18, all changing to live as men. I also have a male cousin who transitioned to live as a woman in middle age a few years back. A friend's male partner has transitioned to nonbinary in their 30s.

I'm a very ordinary suburban woman in my 50s. Is this low numbers? High?

Can’t really understand why people are nodding along with this in society - this is clearly a harmful social contagion

Because to acknowledge that it IS a social contagion isn't #kind or #nice... which IMO is the most worrying social contagion of all - if you can't voice a difference of opinion, critical thought goes down the pan.

When did trying new styles and ideas, seizing every chance of freedom and novelty, become a sign that you’re the other sex? It’s normal teenage behaviour. So is all the angst and self-doubt and emotional upheaval.

Shame on adults who encourage teenagers to take drastic measures during such a volatile time of their lives..

@MumstheWordle

Apologies. Genuine mistake on my part there. Cheers for the heads up

Strange that this is what you respond to, and not any of the posters who challenged you in other respects.

@PermanentTemporary

This one is only 15, the others were 18, all changing to live as men. I also have a male cousin who transitioned to live as a woman in middle age a few years back. A friend's male partner has transitioned to nonbinary in their 30s.

I'm a very ordinary suburban woman in my 50s. Is this low numbers? High?

"Transitioning" is the term normally reserved for people who take sex hormones and have surgery.

@WarriorN

A few teachers on mn have posted about sudden noticeable rise in schools

Lockdown won't have helped. All of that uncontrolled Internet time.

The girls' secondary close to me - three 16 year old friends went to Eastern Europe during last summer for double mastectomies.

Many, many more seem to be trying to follow.

@MumstheWordle

I’ve had to create an account just now, purely with the purpose of commenting on this forum post. I think it’s absolutely disgusting how much transphobia I’m seeing on this page and the entire website as a whole.

Now I understand that some generations are less open to the ideas and (scientifically backed) studies regarding transgenderism, body dysmorphia and gender dysphoria, but whether you agree or not with transgenderism in an objective or subjective manner, I believe it’s worrying to see how invasive and rude a large number of people are with regards to the people around them and their children.

To comment on somebody else’s transition in such a blunt and often antagonising manner is not alright and shouldn’t exist on this platform.

There are far too many posts from people purposefully mis-gendering and using phrases such as “who is apparently a man now” and “who thinks she’s a girl now” etc. This type of discussion is extremely demeaning and serves to try and undermine the very real struggles that come with gender dysmorphia and any individual’s journey with their gender identity.

Additionally, there is a huge issue with people being afraid of their children interacting with those who have transitioned, or are in the process of transitioning. To teach your children that these types of people should avoided only serves to further increase the amount of bullying and abuse that is already a huge issue for trans people.

If one thing should be taken from this, please just treat these people with common decency, use the pronouns they choose, do not inquire deeply about their personal transition unless they’re comfortable discussing it, and perhaps don’t spread rhetoric along the lines of “oh it’s just teenage angst” as it is objectively far deeper than that.

Glad you brought up body dysmorphia. Did you know that when Robert Smith started amputating healthy limbs, the NHS put a stop to it and private hospitals steered clear. The way to treat patients with such mental health conditions is to deal with the mental health condition, not to just hack away at body parts.

Many girls struggle with impending womanhood. Unwanted attention from creepy men and changes to one's body as it goes through puberty are difficult for an adolescent. Filling them with drugs and putting them under the knife is not the answer.

I wonder if a rise in mental health issues in children and adolescents is to blame. The new world of social media and trends has a lot to answer for, lots of the transitioners will be those who are looking for a tribe, for acceptance after years of bullying or not fitting in, this way they have a tribe, it’s kind of like a cult in a way, finally they fit in.

It’s incredibly sad but this is what happens when MH services are dire and haven’t kept up with the new times of social media and being constantly “switched on”.

I'm a gp. Fortunately in the back of beyond, so we have a few patients seeking medical transition, but not many. I have thought long and hard, and at the moment I am not prepared to make any referrals for anyone under 18 to GIDS, as I do not believe that will ever be in my patients' best interests. If I end up being complained about to the GMC for this, so be it.

@MumstheWordle I was as respectful as I knew how to be in my original post. I have posted on others in less respectful ways, I admit that. In real life I always use preferred names and pronouns - of course. In theoretical discussion I do hold to using 'female' and 'male' as words referring to sex as I believe passionately we still need words referring to the sexes. In a world where there is now a lot if pressure to use the phrases 'transgender females' for males who've transitioned and 'transgender males' for females who've transitioned
There is still the issue that I know 3 young females who have transitioned. I have no idea if they have transitioned medically and wouldn't ask as it's not my business, so what word am I meant to use about people who were living as girls and now have official documentation in new names, titles and new pronouns? It would be pretty odd if I were forced to pretend that they had never transitioned at all, I've known them since they were at nursery. I pay one of them for a service and they have a bank account in their new name, this isn't a game to either of us.

As an abstract phenomenon, you and I and everyone knows that not one of these females would have made these changes ten or even six years ago (the middle aged male did). This is a vast societal change or it's a fashion. It is not nothing abd we shouldn't pretend otherwise.

My dd announced aged 14 she was trans. It was absolutely clear (to me) case of ROGD and linked to her hating her body going through puberty. We had long conversations at the time about how it was quite normal to hate this stage, but that it would pass, that puberty blockers were the equivalent to chopping off your perfectly good leg. But that she could dress and be however she wanted and felt comfortable. That it was fine if she fancied girls or boys or noone at all. She cut her waist length hair short and threw out her enormous make-up collection and went about her day to day life happily unrestricted by any gender cliches. She got through puberty and grew out of her desire to be a boy. She's a bit goth now and not one for frocks but definitely female, and at least as far as I know to date, straight. I hate to think what would have happened if I had let her push for transition. I do wonder if she had shown long term signs of gender dysphoria before and after puberty if I would have handled it any differently.

@DrDinosaur

I'm a gp. Fortunately in the back of beyond, so we have a few patients seeking medical transition, but not many. I have thought long and hard, and at the moment I am not prepared to make any referrals for anyone under 18 to GIDS, as I do not believe that will ever be in my patients' best interests. If I end up being complained about to the GMC for this, so be it.

@DrDinosaur, what has the reaction from patients/their parents been in terms of your refusal to refer?

I've tentatively discussed it with a few GPs of my acquaintance, and they've all been a bit woolly about how we don't know what makes people trans and it's important to refer to specialist services for the proper support, &c &c. But I got the distinct impression that they were keen to refer away from their own practice rather than being convinced that this service was the best pathway for those patients.

@Chandeleur

My dd announced aged 14 she was trans. It was absolutely clear (to me) case of ROGD and linked to her hating her body going through puberty. We had long conversations at the time about how it was quite normal to hate this stage, but that it would pass, that puberty blockers were the equivalent to chopping off your perfectly good leg. But that she could dress and be however she wanted and felt comfortable. That it was fine if she fancied girls or boys or noone at all. She cut her waist length hair short and threw out her enormous make-up collection and went about her day to day life happily unrestricted by any gender cliches. She got through puberty and grew out of her desire to be a boy. She's a bit goth now and not one for frocks but definitely female, and at least as far as I know to date, straight. I hate to think what would have happened if I had let her push for transition. I do wonder if she had shown long term signs of gender dysphoria before and after puberty if I would have handled it any differently.

Almost identical to what my dd is going through right now. You only have to see the HUGE wave of teenage girls wanting to transition to recognise the is a new phenomenon and you'd be a poor scientist/doctor/psychologist/counsellor mentor not to wonder what was driving it. And why mainly teenage girls. Muddle aged women are conspicuously absent from this phenomenon but middle aged men have always done it. Why? What's the driving force @MumstheWordle - nothing that's been said here is transphobic. It's recognising that a wave of gender-related behaviours has become hugely prevalent in a very short space of time and it would be foolish in the extreme not to explore what's behind it.

In fact I think the adult women are starting to do it - there was a time lag. But perhaps more are transitioning to nonbinary?

If I was a young woman faced with the choice between A) short tight clothes, makeup, nails, fake tan, long high-maintenance hair styles etc. or B) short hair, baggy comfortable clothes and minimal basic personal care, I know which I'd choose, even if option B came with a socially-compulsory adoption of the 'non-binary' label.

In fact come to think of is, as a woman the wrong side of middle age, I seem to have chosen B without realising... (but not felt the need to choose a new gender label).

I feel so desperately sorry for young women and girls in today's world.

Candy - the thing that worried me the most at the time is that she kept asking for "counselling" - and I put it off because I didn't trust anyone not to encourage her "trans" feelings. I felt so guilty about this. I talked to her a LOT about it all, and she seemed to be going through nothing that isn't absolutely standard for teenage girls. Social Media is to blame for much of it.

I'm definitely B - work in mainly male environments, am not high maintenance in appearance stakes. Happy to flob round in comfy clothing. Hate the hairdresser and having my nails done and shit. It just reinforces to me what a nonsense "gender" is.

I don't know anyone however why does it bother you?

@maddy68

I don't know anyone however why does it bother you?

Children who are deeply unhappy, with mental health issues so severe that they can be coerced into medical and painful surgical alterations on perfectly healthy bodies leading to loss of fertility and sexual function, should concern us all.

I don't know anyone however why does it bother you?

Because for a number of girls this ends up destroying their endocrine system and fertility

LondonWolf, I agree, this is irreversible damage and should be taken a lot more seriously than it is.

I know a few (from opposite ends of the country) and the thing they have in common other than their desire to "transition" is they come from troubled/difficult backgrounds and upbringings and in my opinion, are more likely to be gay or perhaps bisexual females.

It's a social contagion which has been pushed by the usual suspects with vast amounts of money and wherewithal to do so. People (children) are being sold lies.

@maddy68 because so many people doing something that barely happened 10 years ago is interesting. Why wouldn't it be?

Hatred of one's body is a terribly serious issue - we've discussed various manifestations at length over the years on MN.
I don't see how it's helpful to blame an internal entity called "gender" which as far as I can tell just relates to stereotypes, but I'd be happy to have a discussion if it could happen without namecalling etc.

Well, Reddit's detrans forum has 25,000 members and counting.

I wish more people would read their stories and respect their voices. I wish they had access to medical and mental support instead of being fobbed off and alienated.

Their numbers are growing. Society won't be able to ignore them forever.