A third female teenager I know has transitioned.

[PermanentTemporary]

This one is only 15, the others were 18, all changing to live as men. I also have a male cousin who transitioned to live as a woman in middle age a few years back. A friend's male partner has transitioned to nonbinary in their 30s.

I'm a very ordinary suburban woman in my 50s. Is this low numbers? High?

I know two young girls. One transitioned at 16 and the last I heard was on the wait list for the medical pathway. The other was 14 and their mother took them to America for specialist care. The last time I saw them they were 17, tiny frame, facial hair and a deep voice. They always had a cool quirky style, but a troubled family life. They were incredibly depressed and hardly left their room after transition.

I also have a friend who’s middle aged ex husband transitioned. Ex army, litigious, abusive.

Another young female now identifies as non-binary.

OP, I know a few teenage girls around here who've gone NB, cut their hair and opt out of the whole competitive femininity and male sexual abuse fandango. I hope that some of them will eventually be brave enough to come out as lesbians, but no one wants to be a lesbian at the moment: lesbians are the lowest of the low. Being NB and a bit androgynous buys the girls time out while they mature and work out who they are and who, if anyone, they want to sleep with. I'm beginning to wonder if going NB is a covert feminist reaction. Obviously they can't come out as feminists, because feminists, like lesbians, are vitriolic hate-mongers. But I do wonder whether it's a kind of feminist awakening to announce that you're NB.

I am 33 and know 4 adult women my age or a bit younger who have transitioned or are transitioning to men recently, and I have a teenage daughter and every single one of her female friends are now trans. I'm talking 15+ friends over the last few years that I have met. When she asks if Lucas/Kyle/Ryan/Kai/Eli (or Dice/Fox/Ace/Star etc for the non binary) can come over it's always so far been biological girls. Lucas and Ryan seem to be the most popular name changes for some reason. I'll get a shock one day if she ever brings home a biological boy with the name his parents gave him.

I know of 5 under 22 years of age. Three are m > f and two are f > m.

All lovely people, but I wish they hadn't chosen this route. Makes me feel sad.

When I was at school we didn’t have anorexics but my sisters year had self harmers (and by which I mean half hearted scratched across wrists made by a pencil sharpener) in the ‘cool girl’ clique’ but not in my year. We had girls with cropped hair, wearing army fatigues - because we all went to the same hairdresser and bought our clothes in Flip.

@Pluvia

OP, I know a few teenage girls around here who've gone NB, cut their hair and opt out of the whole competitive femininity and male sexual abuse fandango. I hope that some of them will eventually be brave enough to come out as lesbians, but no one wants to be a lesbian at the moment: lesbians are the lowest of the low. Being NB and a bit androgynous buys the girls time out while they mature and work out who they are and who, if anyone, they want to sleep with. I'm beginning to wonder if going NB is a covert feminist reaction. Obviously they can't come out as feminists, because feminists, like lesbians, are vitriolic hate-mongers. But I do wonder whether it's a kind of feminist awakening to announce that you're NB.

I think this is a really interesting possibility. Quite depressing, after the years it's taken to get to the point where we (well some of us) can confidently stand up and say, 'Yes, of course I'm a feminist.' From the perspective you suggest, it looks like we're moving backwards.

I know several who have decided they are the opposite sex or are non binary. Almost every single one is autistic. I am autistic, this is something I would have loved as a teen, the chance to get rid of my horrible periods, and breasts, and fit in with a group, instead of being on the outside wondering why I was always the odd one out.

But no, that has nothing to do with it, these kids know what they want, and must absolutely be affirmed.

@Pluvia

OP, I know a few teenage girls around here who've gone NB, cut their hair and opt out of the whole competitive femininity and male sexual abuse fandango. I hope that some of them will eventually be brave enough to come out as lesbians, but no one wants to be a lesbian at the moment: lesbians are the lowest of the low. Being NB and a bit androgynous buys the girls time out while they mature and work out who they are and who, if anyone, they want to sleep with. I'm beginning to wonder if going NB is a covert feminist reaction. Obviously they can't come out as feminists, because feminists, like lesbians, are vitriolic hate-mongers. But I do wonder whether it's a kind of feminist awakening to announce that you're NB.

I think for some it's about buying time, but not in a feminist way. It feels more like a middle-class Western version of the face veil or breast ironing. They don't have the music and fashion tribes we did. Look at a school photo from the 80s and everyone looks different, hardly anyone looks 'sexy' and 'available'. When I see young female relatives' social media now I have trouble spotting which one is which: all the girls have the same look, straightened hair, pout, short tight dress. They seem to be presented with two main options, that or the 'non-binary' look with the short hair, nose ring, big glasses. The latter remind me a bit of 80s Smiths fans ("'we're celibate, like Morrissey!") only without the music, the gigs, the clubs.

@KittenKong

Show how is that different from when I was a teen and girls tended not to try to look like Baywatch babes, and cropped hair was a fashion (more Annie Lennox)?

Fairly usual to have nicknames (either made up, or Georgia would be Georgie). Clothes were baggy and often ‘boys’.

If anyone had asked if we were boys we would have laughed at them and called them idiots. We were being who we were - pretending to be older or more confident, cool, sophisticated… but still us.

The difference from what we did as teens is that Goth children weren't given split tongues or black eyeballs on doctors orders. This is MY ("adult") daughter - on testosterone, planning a mastectomy. Everyone PLEASE, watch this film and understand. www.youtube.com/channel/UCHnk_swzJ_AoizRkQYYvO8g

Please send it to ALL your friends, politicians, neighbours, enemies, anyone. This is a social contagion. It's my kid now, but it might be yours next year.

This is devastating, and the only people who seem to understand are parents, who cannot speak openly because we are trying to maintain a relationship with our children, and a proportion of feminists and gays. HELP - we are desperate!!

Woops
This is the correct link:

@AgeOfReason99, Im so sorry for you and your DD.

My DD (12) has been trying (unsuccessfully, thank goodness) to breast bind, and was obsessed with pro-nouns and a gender neutral name with her friends, but not to myself or her dad. We've spoken about it and I've said why I think its harmful - ie medicalisation and to my knowledge she's stopped looking at related videos on Youtube. She's at the age where she is desperate to find her 'tribe', poor love. Just wish we had subculture such as punks/mods/new romantics etc, but all they have is this. Its depressing and worrying.

I have a distant relative who transitioned FtM in the 90s. Had dreadful mental health problems before and ended up in hospital. Since transitioning they are happier.

My daughter has several friends who are calling themselves boys names and school has introduced a gender neutral toilet (a third space thankfully, probably because it seems to all be girls that are transitioning). I'm just hoping that growing up with lesbian aunties and not being autistic will protect her against the social contagion.

well, I have 2 dds.

Both say they are trans
One is 16 and has now legally changed name and on her 17 birthday wants to get referred to adult GIDS
The other is 14 and all over the place.

because of my dds, I know about 20-50 young people alos gender questioning.
They are part of a LGBTQ club at school. Its first meeting after lockdown had 80 members. Most of those are non-binary and trans rather than just gay.
Dd1 goes ot a club in our town. Average weekly meeting 50 kids. (no cross over with school as this is another town) LGBTQ club. But most are gender questioning, rather than gay.

It seems so much easier today to change over these days- when I was a teen in the 60s/70s boys played football, drove bangers which they spent the weekend repairing/modifying/ polishing, got drunk and into fights at weekends, watched footie live and on Tv.
Nothing seems to need to change now - the hair and clothes maybe.

AgeOfReason99

I agree and I feel your pain.
I let my 12 year old gay daughter go to a club for gay teens so she oculd find support, and then discovered that they are all now trans or non binary.
Gay is so boring.
As for being straight, well, it seems to have disappeared!

As a parent it is terrifying. I have talked long and hard to my dds about hormones, puberty and the dangers of hormone blockers etc.
Some gets through. Not much.

I know two very clearly gay male teens now presenting as female having always been fairly 'feminine'. Both have had serious health issues and difficult family backgrounds. A female relative has gone through various labels and haircuts and is now identifying as a boy but is not fully out, I only know as she has told my DD. Recent divorce, change of school and early puberty / very visible breast development by 12. A friends daughter now heading into NB breast binding territory. Terrible eating disorder seems to be fading into a new form of self harm.

I also know of two recent middle aged male people saying they are women - both difficult, litigious or abusive people in their family lives. Unsurprisingly.

I know of two. One at DD's school who can often be heard lamenting how unsupportive her mother is - "A Karen" apparently, and being strenuously encouraged by her friendship group who regularly mull over calling social services to intervene because they feel SO sorry for her having such a mother. Reading between the lines it is clear Mum is GC and watchfully waiting. But how worrying that a gang of clueless 13/14 year olds are considering trying to involve social services with the family. My own dd made a few faint noises about not wanting to be a girl about two years ago. She was guided through that by me, with an iron fist inside a velvet glove. She is autistic and I have been on the GC wagon since 2015 and knew exactly what was playing out. Many parents don't though sadly and are blackmailed by the "better a live trans child than a dead ds/ds" rhetoric fed to them by TRA. I don't know where this goes. I'd hoped we'd all wake up and come to our senses by now but it seems thoroughly embedded in society at the point 😞

I know an adult transwoman who is in the same hobby group as me.

My adult DCs left school a few years ago and had friends/ knew of others who were gender questioning or presenting as non-binary, but none full on trans/transitioning I don't think.

As another poster said he goes to a Christian school and they are not pushing the TWAW ideology I think that has helped - this was our experience. The focus was all on 'be yourself, be individual etc' but not heavy on gender identity.

DS was shocked when he went to uni and found a high proportion of students in his subject identifying as trans. At least 3 of them same from the same sixth form college in Cambridge which seems to have a much higher than average level. It's also the same school the child of an old school friend of mine went to, and they transitioned at 14/15 and went on to have medical transition I believe.
I think social contagion is real!

None in my small town DD is 8 and has brought up gender a few times are they pushing this shite in year 4? She asked how many genders are there and I said 2 but some people decide to swap as they aren't happy.

It's vile they are pushing the trans ideology to kids so young and vulnerable.

My eldest son is dating a transman, autistic and with horrible endometriosis who wants to go the full medicalisation pathway. My Dd is 13 and says she wants to be a boy. Has short hair, refers to herself by a gender neutral name at school wears gender neutral clothes etc. When asked what 'being a boy' realistically means, she can't answer, strops off and accuses me of not understanding her.

I looked like Ron Weasley at her age. I've shown her the pictures.

'Iron fist in a velvet glove' is very much the approach I'm taking.

I know a number.

For many years I've known a transwoman who transitioned in middle age in 1980 - previously lived as a gay man. One of the earliest sex change operations in my country.

I know quite a few friends of my young teen daughter now calling themselves boys, all with the same 3 names.

Two female people I worked with who identify as non-binary and queer - years ago would have just been lesbians. They are a bit older, 20 for one, 30 for the other.

Fellow who works at the mall in the cosmetics section who lives as a woman though I'm not entirely sure what pronouns were used as it seemed confusing to me, I don't know this person well but my elderly grandfather was quite friendly with the individual, they always seemed like an odd pair.

But apart from the first and last of these, all within the last few years (less than five.)

Oh, actually, now that I think of it, I know a male teen as well increasingly taking on traditionally female clothing. I've been kind of waiting for the penny to drop with transition but who knows, he isn't in school so he might not have the same pressure to go that way. He was always kind of an odd kid with clothing choices but it's seemed to me recently it's changed focus a lot.

@steppemum

well, I have 2 dds.

Both say they are trans
One is 16 and has now legally changed name and on her 17 birthday wants to get referred to adult GIDS
The other is 14 and all over the place.

because of my dds, I know about 20-50 young people alos gender questioning.
They are part of a LGBTQ club at school. Its first meeting after lockdown had 80 members. Most of those are non-binary and trans rather than just gay.
Dd1 goes ot a club in our town. Average weekly meeting 50 kids. (no cross over with school as this is another town) LGBTQ club. But most are gender questioning, rather than gay.

What do you mean 'just gay'?

I used to belong to an informal LGB network where we raised money to fund and support to run clubs and events for young LGB people, helping them to develop confidence and friendship networks with people who understood and supported their same-sex preference.

Now they've got to come out and navigate in a world in which there is no separate LGB space and they're always expected to share space with young people who are basically involved in a homophobic movement. TQ+ is all about gender, self-ID, belief. TQ+ organisations and leaders don't believe in sex: sex is old-fashioned. As Peter Tatchell said the other other day, soon everyone will be bisexual and no one will be attached to outdated genital preferences.

So what happens to those who are same-sex attracted? Do they get sucked into gender reassignment to?

This is so sick. LGB adults are one thing — we've grown up and fought for the right to be who we are. But lumping LGB kids into groups where sex isn't considered a material and their same-sex attraction is under question is totally twisted.

You have to ask yourself how many of these transitioning teens would be doing it if social media didn't exist.

Oh, I thought of another. Teen girl whose mum I know, transitioned socially and started hormones at 15, had a mastectomy at 16. Mum worked in a gender clinic, child is autistic.