Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Mumsnet Webchat about women/mums in politics with Stella Creasy and Caroline Nokes - 1st February

609 replies

Bosky · 31/01/2022 11:56

Anyone got any questions for Stella and Caroline? Smile

Go to:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/4468388-Webchat-about-women-mums-in-politics-with-Stella-Creasy-and-Caroline-Nokes-1st-February

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
SpinningTheSeedsOfLove · 01/02/2022 17:45

@Eve

you are all trending on twitter!! Smile
I had a look.

Some US and Candian twitterers with blue ticks and 79,000 bot followers, who don't understand the UK context let alone the Scottish one, and let alone the debate, have accused MN of being a 'radicalisation' portal. A small bunch of people with 85 followers agreed.

They just really hate their mums.

TeenPlusCat · 01/02/2022 17:46

I wonder how different the discussion would have been about 'women in politics' if they had just said 'for the purposes of having a useful debate we will take women to mean anyone born female'.

To be honest, I don't know what MN HQ expected. Either they expected what happened, and actually this is all part of a cunning plan to make MPs and others realise that women's sex based provisions need protecting, or ... what?

MerryPoppings · 01/02/2022 17:48

Very disappointing that on a topic supposedly about supporting women, when women are talking intelligently and calmly about protecting sex-based rights, our MPs respond by telling those women off for "shouting" and telling them to shut up and "be kind". Ironically misogynistic.

And on top of that even suggesting that women's rights are not at risk in the first place!

MerryPoppings · 01/02/2022 17:49

[quote Goatsaregreat]While sharing the disappointment, have a look at this article in the Times today:
Take a look at the hundreds of comments and the countless men clearly identifying the dangers to women and speaking knowledgeably about what is happening. It's not just women on here - it's everywhere. People have woken up and are speaking out. It's not going to be hidden again. MPs are going to have to face an increasingly angry electorate about what they've allowed to happen:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ca255c4a-8294-11ec-b939-57ea9f594ba1?shareToken=522352b42ad1dd7805212f3a0adbff2c[/quote]
Just bumping this. Mumsnet is not the only place where people can see the Emperor has no clothes.

TurquoiseBaubles · 01/02/2022 17:50

I tried, I really did, to give them the benefit of the doubt. Then I got to

"all women- those born them and those who become them"

and gave up.

Thelnebriati · 01/02/2022 17:56

Its disappointing to see MP's support putting men in womens prisons, as long as they don't have a previous conviction for a sexual offence.

If they havent grasped the implications of the low conviction rate, and support this policy even after Karen White had to be removed, they are never going to listen to us.

Whatthechicken · 01/02/2022 17:56

Well that was a complete waste of time. So infuriating.

I did like this post from @jeaux90

I'm so angry that as a tax payer the system doesn't work for me, the police, the legal system etc.

As half the population whose tax bill doesn't discriminate based on my sex why is it that women and girls get substandard service when it comes down to policing and prosecution on VAWG/Rape.

Perhaps we should get a rebate?

Exactly right, the system doesn’t work for us.

Artichokeleaves · 01/02/2022 17:58

@Thelnebriati

we need to raise the level of debate. Anyone have a clue what this means or how we reach politicians when talking directly to them just results in us being fobbed off?
This.

Debate means actually permitting people to voice things that you don't want to hear.

TeenPlusCat · 01/02/2022 18:00

It all comes back to the fact that the barriers to TW in politics are totally different from the barriers to Women in politics. So they should be discussed separately too.
or Open up the discussion to be how to get more diverse MPs apart from middle aged straight, non disabled, NT, white men

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/02/2022 18:03

I don't quite understand how Creasy and Nokes and Laura Bates and all these other professional "I care about women" women who come to do these gaslighting webchats and see first hand how women are ridiculed and insulted for their concerns, can have the level of cognitive dissonance necessary to believe they're the good ones who are fighting for women.

Dinosaurwoman · 01/02/2022 18:04

That was a complete joke. How can you possibly help women if you can’t define what one is.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/02/2022 18:04

all women- those born them and those who become them

That was a particularly low point.

IKeptYouLikeAnOath · 01/02/2022 18:05

@Thelnebriati

we need to raise the level of debate. Anyone have a clue what this means or how we reach politicians when talking directly to them just results in us being fobbed off?
I think it must mean stop saying stuff like 'suck my lady dick' but that doesn't explain why we need to be told to raise the debate.
Franca123 · 01/02/2022 18:08

I simply don't want people 'fighting for my rights' when they are doing so based on the idea that I wear dresses, like sewing and behave kindly. I don't want to be lumped into that group. I am an adult human female. End of. SC and CN do not represent me.

Thelnebriati · 01/02/2022 18:09

We went straight from 'no debate' to 'raise the level of debate.' I give up on them. We've never had a seat at this table and we never will.

RavensburgerPuzzle · 01/02/2022 18:11

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

jeaux90 · 01/02/2022 18:13

@Whatthechicken

Well that was a complete waste of time. So infuriating.

I did like this post from @jeaux90

I'm so angry that as a tax payer the system doesn't work for me, the police, the legal system etc.

As half the population whose tax bill doesn't discriminate based on my sex why is it that women and girls get substandard service when it comes down to policing and prosecution on VAWG/Rape.

Perhaps we should get a rebate?

Exactly right, the system doesn’t work for us.

Thanks @Whatthechicken

I'm surprised we aren't rioting to be honest.

Our taxes (as women) are propping up an entire system that works against us.

We are discriminated against by the police, the court system, social services and the NHS (they don't bother training GP's on menopause even)

So I'm enraged by it.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/02/2022 18:16

Did you notice that Caroline seems to have an odd idea that a "transwoman" (watch that lack of a space, Caroline!) is a person who has a GRC?

JuergenSchwarzwald · 01/02/2022 18:16

Mumsnet is not the only place where people can see the Emperor has no clothes

The Times is ok. A bit of silly censorship by AI bots but it does cover these issues on a regular basis and allows a degree of comment.

RedToothBrush · 01/02/2022 18:27

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I don't quite understand how Creasy and Nokes and Laura Bates and all these other professional "I care about women" women who come to do these gaslighting webchats and see first hand how women are ridiculed and insulted for their concerns, can have the level of cognitive dissonance necessary to believe they're the good ones who are fighting for women.
'How do we get more women into politics?' says Caroline Nokes who started her career by working for her Dad who was an Conservative MEP.

I dunno, stop politics looking like an old boys club or nepotistic because that puts people off.

'How do we get more women into politics?' says Stella Creasy who is degree educated in politics at Cambridge and a career politician.

I dunno, maybe think about grass roots activism and value it and maybe develop apprenticeships for kids who perhaps aren't so academic, but are interested in politics or have active return to work schemes for all parties.

And complete ignore the elephant in the room about giving birth itself and just talk about childcare.

And do a lot more about general work / home life balances - we should be looking at things like dual ticket candidates for a constituency so you have two people who can represent the constituency on a more part time business.

Do more to get rid of patronising old blokes who crush women at local level before they even decide to stand.

Maybe not ostracise and isolate women who are gender critical. Theres some cracking grass roots activists who be brilliant in politics but are too busy dealling with all manner of vexatious court cases and harassment in their workplace. Instead they are viewed as 'the wrong type of woman'.

Try not to completely alienate the female electorate generally.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 01/02/2022 18:28

Interesting from Justine on neither MP being able to say what a woman is I don't think they did refuse did they. you just didn't agree with them... Agreement wasn't required. It's an easy question with a straight factual answer, adult human female. Which means that 2 MPs were somehow happy to go on record as being completely wrong on the most fundamentally basic fact of human biology. Do they deserve their seats after this display of total, embarrassing foolishness? I don't think they do. It is a joke.

RedToothBrush · 01/02/2022 18:30

But 'raise the level of debate'

Is that a euphemism for 'educate yourselves'? Or simply saying 'I think i am intellectually superior to you'?

Im curious, as to how I could raise my political game and debating skills better. I thought I was fairly able at that.

It does show this looking down the nose and the plebs attitude doesn't it?

OldCrone · 01/02/2022 18:32

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Did you notice that Caroline seems to have an odd idea that a "transwoman" (watch that lack of a space, Caroline!) is a person who has a GRC?
Yes, I thought that was a bit odd.

I think it is really important to focus on this being a chat about how we get more women involved in public life. I want that to be all women, natal women, transwomen, and those who self-identify and do not yet (or perhaps ever) have a GRC.

In her mind there seems to be a distinction between a 'transwoman' and someone who 'self-identifies' and doesn't have a GRC.

Batmammy · 01/02/2022 18:36

Saw Mumsnet was trending on Twitter and came over to raise a glass to all you fabulous women who are asking the right questions 🥂

MerryPoppings · 01/02/2022 18:39

I would love to hear from male politicians discussing how THEY can make the political arena less misogynistic and female friendly. Why is the onus always on women to fight for equality?