Mumsnet Webchat about women/mums in politics with Stella Creasy and Caroline Nokes - 1st February

[Bosky]

Anyone got any questions for Stella and Caroline?

Go to:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/4468388-Webchat-about-women-mums-in-politics-with-Stella-Creasy-and-Caroline-Nokes-1st-February

I missed this thread and started another, but this one is linked into it now so will bump this thread.

All feeling fed up on the other thread too and do not wish to be kind aka STFU.

(Other thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4469694-Webchat-Stella-Creasy-and-Caroline-Nokes?watched=1&msgid=114736223#114736223)

Seems we're no longer allowed to criticise elected MPs on mumsnet. I guess we should know our place as women and 'be kind'. This place is toxic.

@Foxxinsoxx

I usually just lurk but I was dumbfounded by SC saying “What sex based rights do you think are not protected? There is a lot of heat and not a lot of light about what impact changes such as GRC would make etc and so genuinely open to understanding what rights these 'take away' as opposed to extend?"

Is she seriously saying she hasn’t engaged with or understood the arguments AT ALL???

Theresa May's comment yesterday comes to mind.

Is this stupidity?

Or dishonesty.

Because females having single sex spaces, and males being welcomed into female spaces at will cannot exist at one and the same time . And some females cannot access mixed sex spaces, which they are if males are present , and to exclude females from female only spaces to make males happy is unacceptably exclusionary, discriminatory and sexist to the point of male supremacism.

A child could understand this.

@MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking I had a look at the tweets and what I was struck by was the poor arguments/statements made by people obviously used to a medium which has a limited word count. There's no depth of discussion or attempts to evaluate things - it's all sound bites and handwringing. I suppose that's why the regular drop in scolders do so badly here - they're not used to actually explaining their viewpoints in detail and actually backing up things with evidence.

"Be kind" is a though-terminating cliché that can FOTTFSOFAWIGTFOSM.

the fact that this webchat went to from TWAW to be kind to we're deleting any post about trans issues has actually shocked me.

When you come to a webchat of women politicians, with women on a women's forum, to specifically talk about women's issues - and lets be honest women here means female and we all know it, it's specific to the issues of the half the population born biologically female and female is bloody diverse enough as a group - and the only way to deal with controlling the situation is to silence those women on the main issue they wish to talk about, to literally delete and remove their voices to control the narrative?

There is a huge, huge problem. And it's not going away is it? Journalists, MPs, activists, take note. It is not going away . Ignoring this is not making it smell any less, it is not going to end with women just giving up, shutting up and accepting the roll back on their rights.

Either 'be kind' includes the females this agenda want to exclude and harm - and lets talk about kindness to the woman here who cannot access a rape crisis service, the woman who slept rough for months because she couldn't access a refuge, the women with kids who can't go on school trips and won't use toilets -

or it means 'pander to males'.

Which is it?

Wow, saw Mumsnet was trending on Twitter and had a look.

Did they really not answer the question of 'what is a woman' on a webchat about women in politics? Are people really not seeing it, or are they just putting their fingers in their ears and closing their eyes?

So much 'it's a cess pit of radicalisation' crap on Twitter. They are desperate for women to just shut the fuck up about this issue and hope that it just goes away......

They said they support all women including TW, but didn't define women. I would like to know if they genuinely think women can have a penis and be sexually attracted to women.

Wow, saw Mumsnet was trending on Twitter and had a look.

I know we're 4chan for terfs and have links with Kiwi Farms apparently. It's the only thing about the webchat that's raised a smile.

While sharing the disappointment, have a look at this article in the Times today:
Take a look at the hundreds of comments and the countless men clearly identifying the dangers to women and speaking knowledgeably about what is happening. It's not just women on here - it's everywhere. People have woken up and are speaking out. It's not going to be hidden again. MPs are going to have to face an increasingly angry electorate about what they've allowed to happen:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ca255c4a-8294-11ec-b939-57ea9f594ba1?shareToken=522352b42ad1dd7805212f3a0adbff2c

The 'be kind' and 'let's raise the level of debate' comments were infuriating. Raise the level of debate? You won't bloody have the debate! How dare they answer perfectly reasonable questions with 'be kind'? It's so patronising.

It is a perfect demonstration of the contempt that so many politicians have for ordinary people.

It's also a great demonstration of stupidity. A canny politician would have looked at that chat and seen exactly what they need to do to get the vast majority of women's votes.

These politicians seem to have forgotten that their job is to represent us - not to 'educate us' in how to be fucking kind.

Oooh, I’ve had a post deleted. I feel like I am finally one of the Cool Girls 😄. I’ll try paraphrasing what I posted and see if that stands.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them. Some politicians have just shown us who they are.

Can I say that???

Leaving this here for anyone who hasn't already seen it.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2018/05/demonisation-mumsnet-just-latest-incarnation-witch-hunting

Twitter user 'I would rather face 4chan than mumsnet' 😂

Meanwhile, for the lurkers who have popped over to check out this 'hotbed of radicalisation', you only need to know one thing.

We, as natal born women, will safeguard our children and each other (including women who don't agree with us) for as long as it takes for society to wake up and realise that it has opened the safeguarding door. We will fight while we wait. We know how to do this, because we have extensive experience of protecting ourselves and our children from predatory men, so we can see, quite clearly, that this open door will allow the predators in. In fact it already has.

This open door does no one any favours: not transwomen who aren't predators, and not women and children.

If that makes us a radical hotbed,of vipers then so be it.

Thank you Justine. And you're right they did tell us what they think, and we will remember.

we need to raise the level of debate.
Anyone have a clue what this means or how we reach politicians when talking directly to them just results in us being fobbed off?

@RavensburgerPuzzle

What I don't understand is how 'I don't see the conflict with self ID and women's right to sex specific spaces' and 'I have engaged with and listened to women's groups on this issue' can possibly both be true. Because surely you couldn't sit down with, say, Nic Williams and say 'what's the issue?' without her saying, 'it's dicks in women's changing rooms'?

So don't say 'we need a better debate' Have that better debate. Come and tell us why the dicks are ok. Then we can move forward.

She's already told us in this tweet from 2018. The thread's full of holes with lots of deleted tweets, but she was responding to a woman who told her about her daughter having to use a school changing room where another "girl" played with their "female penis".

twitter.com/stellacreasy/status/975437024038739968

I'd be concerned for any child who thought it was appropriate to masturbate in view of someone else without their consent, and the impact that could have on the person viewing. Peer on peer sexual assault v serious and underreported in schools. need to change that.

No comment on the fact that it was a boy masturbating in a girls' changing room and the easiest way to 'change that' would be to have single sex changing rooms.

[quote Goatsaregreat]While sharing the disappointment, have a look at this article in the Times today:
Take a look at the hundreds of comments and the countless men clearly identifying the dangers to women and speaking knowledgeably about what is happening. It's not just women on here - it's everywhere. People have woken up and are speaking out. It's not going to be hidden again. MPs are going to have to face an increasingly angry electorate about what they've allowed to happen:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ca255c4a-8294-11ec-b939-57ea9f594ba1?shareToken=522352b42ad1dd7805212f3a0adbff2c[/quote]
This stands out from that article:

"The authors of the new paper, due to be published in the journal Frontiers in Global Women’s Health, said that replacing words such as “breastfeeding” with terms such as “lactating parents” risks “reducing protection of the mother-infant [bond]” and “disembodying and undermining breastfeeding”."

And I think that unless MPs are going to stand up and say "we will change the law to remove "sex" as a protected group", whichever party is in power, is going to find that dehumanising us or, indeed, disembodying us, will continue to be challenged wherever we see it.

Will any MP stand up and say: "I advocate removing all protections for men and women under the law"? I doubt it. If they don't say it then they've no democratic mandate. If they don't say it and try to sneak it in once in power through sleight of hand policies with the law unchanged - hoping it'll be changed by stealth - then it follows that they will be challenged and they will lose.

We will be watching carefully and, as has been indicated here many, many times, voting accordingly.

@chilling19

Twitter user 'I would rather face 4chan than mumsnet' 😂

Meanwhile, for the lurkers who have popped over to check out this 'hotbed of radicalisation', you only need to know one thing.

We, as natal born women, will safeguard our children and each other (including women who don't agree with us) for as long as it takes for society to wake up and realise that it has opened the safeguarding door. We will fight while we wait. We know how to do this, because we have extensive experience of protecting ourselves and our children from predatory men, so we can see, quite clearly, that this open door will allow the predators in. In fact it already has.

This open door does no one any favours: not transwomen who aren't predators, and not women and children.

If that makes us a radical hotbed,of vipers then so be it.

100%

The open safeguarding door is demonstrated here, just in case anyone thinks it is not happening.

These Are Not Our Crimes www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3896235-These-Are-Not-Our-Crimes

Delurk 👍