Mumsnet Webchat about women/mums in politics with Stella Creasy and Caroline Nokes - 1st February

[Bosky]

Anyone got any questions for Stella and Caroline?

Go to:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/4468388-Webchat-about-women-mums-in-politics-with-Stella-Creasy-and-Caroline-Nokes-1st-February

May I just saw that this thread is utterly fucking awesome.

So many women who are furiously politically engaged. I love all of you, you keep me going when I'm thoroughly heartsick of it all.

@RedToothBrush

Being thrown to the lionesses?

Or being asked to be accountable to the public and to reflect on what women are thinking.

Stella is pretty much going 'back my campaign, back my campaign' with not a sausage about what the Labour party themselves do, and how they should be working cross party in terms of aiding representation at lower levels of democracy.

Democracy should start from the grass roots. Instead Stella's focus seems to be on careers at the highest level in politics (which i have to argue is effectively a pet project based on her own experience rather than any listening to the wider public going on).

The lack of listening and just talking at women seems to be a common feature and its something i despise from politicians generally. Its a modern trend to do with PR.

Politicians are no longer able to have any opinions of their own for fear of upsetting the apple cart. That utterly cripples debate and diversity of thought.

The fact that Noakes has inadvertently proved my point about women not having even power to speak on their own terms, is genuinely quite frightening to see.

This.

@Franca123

What do we pay MPs for if it's not to take the time to fully consider important issues like this. It makes me so angry that she is being paid a handsome salary by us, refuses to sort out child care and then is so ignorant on such an important issue. It has made me reconsider my views on our whole parliamentary system. I had quite a serious conversation last night about the merits of a randomly selected parliament. People would be called up to parliament like we are now for jury service. The current system is simply not giving us the calibre of people that we need.

You need people who understand how politics work (should work) not just people who have opinions though.

I think there's some merit to the idea, but you still need people to pull it all together and that still involves gatekeeping.

You need to improve the gatekeeping.

There is a book from 1841 which discusses how cultures 'go mad'

It has some great quotes, which you can find at the bottom of the wiki summary here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Popular_Delusions_and_the_Madness_of_Crowds

"We find that whole communities suddenly fix their minds upon one object, and go mad in its pursuit; that millions of people become simultaneously impressed with one delusion, and run after it, till their attention is caught by some new folly more captivating than the first."

and

"Of all the offspring of Time, Error is the most ancient, and is so old and familiar an acquaintance, that Truth, when discovered, comes upon most of us like an intruder, and meets the intruder's welcome."

What is twitter, but a vehicle which is driving a number of these follies? Also see FB and conspiracy theories.

Good quotes, Red. Is that where Douglas Murray got his title from?

Re Stella Creasey - she may be talking mince, but I'm slightly impressed she's still engaging at all.

I reiterate an invitation to her to come back and have a webchat where we really get into the details of these issues.

I am also wondering about why politicians agree to do MN webchats, and am suspecting it might be a form of hazing or a forfeit or part of an archaic and elaborate dare game:

'Either run round Parliament Square stark bollock naked on a Friday afternoon, or do a Mumsnet webchat'

I'm all for respectful debate, but Stella's tweets today have convinced me of two things.
I would never support her Misogyny bill because she has no bloody clue what a woman is. I am definitely with Joan Smith on this one now. Stella would end up with a bill that TRAs would use to persecute women.
And secondly however terrible this current govt is (and my God they're bloody terrible) I cannot vote for people who spout such disingenuous, offensive rubbish. She thinks she knows better than all the hundreds of women in her replies, no attempt to see why we are so angry. No attempt to engage and answer their questions about real life situations.
Oh and thirdly she's so bloody offensive to Sarah Everard's memory. Just mind boggling.
Just a bit gobsmacked by her puerile nonsense. I'm done giving these people the benefit of the doubt.

The biggest problem with politics. People who decide the solution based on ideology and then fit the problem to it to suit the solution, rather than people who identify the problem and then find the right solution.

Good management is based on the principle of identity the problem correctly, think of a range of solution, assess the solutions and work out the pros and cons of each solution, then adopt a strategy including plans to mitigate the negative consequences.

Politics traditionally used debate to do this. When you ditch debate and instead just install soap boxes or recruit people with similar ideologies and deliberately exclude those who don't share the same opinions, what do you think happens?

You get runaway ideologies without restraint.

Madness.

Why ‘This mum votes’?

Is the underrepresentation of mums in parliament particularly bad compared to that of women as a whole?

Or is it that motherhood is something that recently happened to Creasy?

Just something I’ve been pondering

@DomesticatedZombie

Good quotes, Red. Is that where Douglas Murray got his title from?

Re Stella Creasey - she may be talking mince, but I'm slightly impressed she's still engaging at all.

I reiterate an invitation to her to come back and have a webchat where we really get into the details of these issues.

I am also wondering about why politicians agree to do MN webchats, and am suspecting it might be a form of hazing or a forfeit or part of an archaic and elaborate dare game:

'Either run round Parliament Square stark bollock naked on a Friday afternoon, or do a Mumsnet webchat'

Yes. It will be.

But its an influential book in many ways and on many people.

(which I should probably actually get my arse into gear to read!)

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

Why ‘This mum votes’?

Is the underrepresentation of mums in parliament particularly bad compared to that of women as a whole?

Or is it that motherhood is something that recently happened to Creasy?

Just something I’ve been pondering

It's patronising garbage. Unless I'm reading it wrong, and I eagerly await her 'Get out and vote, Dads!' campaign.

I would never support her Misogyny bill because she has no bloody clue what a woman is. I am definitely with Joan Smith on this one now. Stella would end up with a bill that TRAs would use to persecute women

If I recall Stella ran workshops with stonewall to develop what this bill should cover. So yes I can't it being particularly useful to women.

if you want to here a good debate Where does Feminism go Next, with Julie Bindel, Mary Harrington and Hadley Freeman, is on Unherd.com.

I would give a link but it doesn't seem to be working.

Excellent discussion, mentioning MN, Stella Creasey and a lot more. And only released today, so very topical.

or even Hear a good debate

Thanks for that I shall watch it now.

I can't believe she is saying that assaulting a Drag Queen is misogyny. Of course it isn't.

So Wayne Couzens actually murdered a woman, someone he stopped on the street because he was able to tell, at night and from a distance, that she was a woman.

But what we should be focusing on is pondering is if he assaulted a transwoman, whether or not that would be misogyny?

Also, if Stella was referring to the drag queen that he allegedly attacked, someone needs to tell her that a) drag queens are not transwonen and b) that a man doesn't attack a drag queen because of 'misogyny'.

Honestly, I give up with these people. Stella's latest crap now goes on the ever growing list of stupid things Labour politicians have said in defence of trabs ideology.

So Wayne Couzens actually murdered a woman, someone he stopped on the street because he was able to tell, at night and from a distance, that she was a woman.

But what we should be focusing on is pondering is if he assaulted a transwoman, whether or not that would be misogyny?

This is what I think too, it's like debating how many angels can dance in the head of a pin while actual women are being actually murdered.

The problem is when you see how disingenuous they are about a topic you've read about, researched and formed a view which you know is reasonable it makes you doubt everything else they say. The trust is gone.

@Mollyollydolly

The problem is when you see how disingenuous they are about a topic you've read about, researched and formed a view which you know is reasonable it makes you doubt everything else they say. The trust is gone.

Yes, this. How can you trust them on other issues when they come out with such crap on this one, for the sake of....what?

Yes the web chat was Creasy's version of moving deckchairs around on the titanic. As pp said, the house is burning.

unherd.com/thepost/debate-where-does-feminism-go-next/

Looks good, thanks!

I've just seen this little jem! Stella was attacked (I'm calling full hose) on MN for talking about having a baby (face palm) and MN have "work to do". I don't think she could enrage me more.

mobile.twitter.com/stellacreasy/status/1488802639143911429

thanks zombie I don't know why I couldn't get it to work.

[quote FOJN]I've just seen this little jem! Stella was attacked (I'm calling full hose) on MN for talking about having a baby (face palm) and MN have "work to do". I don't think she could enrage me more.

mobile.twitter.com/stellacreasy/status/1488802639143911429[/quote]
Oh god she is ridiculous.

[quote FOJN]I've just seen this little jem! Stella was attacked (I'm calling full hose) on MN for talking about having a baby (face palm) and MN have "work to do". I don't think she could enrage me more.

mobile.twitter.com/stellacreasy/status/1488802639143911429[/quote]
"HELLOOOOO! I'VE HAD A BABY YOU KNOW!"

Having a baby doesn't exempt you from criticism when you act like a dick by turning up to patronise hundreds of women ('mums' 🤗 ) who are 100 times more informed than you are.

I don't think she understands that using her baby, sleep deprivation and the challenges of being a working mum was patronising. It was as if she believed any MN stereotypes she may have heard and thought that was the best way to get us on side.

If she'd had enough respect to do a little research she would have known that "be kind" is like a red rag to a bull on MN, most feminists can quickly work out why even of they haven't given it much thought before and she would have known that expertise of posters here includes many subjects besides parenting.

Those few minutes research might have spared her a humiliating shock.