Page 20 | Mumsnet Webchat about women/mums in politics with Stella Creasy and Caroline Nokes - 1st February

PearPickingPorky · 03/02/2022 15:17

I also find the whole pretense of this "webchat" interesting/ridiculous.

Nokes and Creasy supposed came here to ask "Why aren't more of you 'mums' interested in entering politics? What's holding you back?"

Yet they weren't interested in hearing from us 'mums' why we felt unable to enter public life. They - two women who are already in public life, and who have been for a long time, and to whom those barriers have not prohibited - have already decided what our answers should be, and what the solution is. And those solutions are things which benefit they two women already in parliament. They are entirely deaf to all the very politically engaged women who are stuck unable to enter politics, who are telling them what is stopping us.

Why are they pretending this is about encouraging more women IN to politics when what they are actually doing is trying to curate policies which benefit only the very privileged and unrepresentative few women who are already in, but don't address any of the issues for the women who want in but can't get in?

TD;DR - if you're so sure you already have the answer, don't bother fucking asking.

We're not here to lap praise upon you because you want to bring your baby to work.

SenselessUbiquity · 03/02/2022 15:26

Oh yeah the "wriggly baby" and "I can't work the webchat" annoyed me. 1. Get childcare. I don't try to work without childcare. I take my job seriously. Maybe you don't want to leave a tiny baby (is it tiny?) with someone else all the time, but you can get cover for a scheduled meeting, that you volunteered for, with thousands of people all asking questions at the same time in real time. 2. Practise the platform before you attempt a time-sensitive task. Obviously.

IKeptYouLikeAnOath · 03/02/2022 15:31

I think they were utterly thrown by how politically engaged we actually are; I would bet we are much more educated then them on this particular issue.

Which is why at the very least they could have said 'look, I'm still reading a lot on this issue and I don't have all the answers either, but I am committed to holding space for the rights of women and the rights of trans people'.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/02/2022 15:32

On this particular webchat, the context of these Labour politicians and some history matters.

Nokes is a Tory in the mould of Maria Miller.

SenselessUbiquity · 03/02/2022 15:35

@Ereshkigalangcleg

On this particular webchat, the context of these Labour politicians and some history matters.

Nokes is a Tory in the mould of Maria Miller.

Of course

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/02/2022 15:36

Great post, though SenselessUbiquity just wanted to point out that it's not just Labour, it's cross party, though Labour have been prominent in shutting women out.

RedToothBrush · 03/02/2022 15:39

@SenselessUbiquity

Oh yeah the "wriggly baby" and "I can't work the webchat" annoyed me. 1. Get childcare. I don't try to work without childcare. I take my job seriously. Maybe you don't want to leave a tiny baby (is it tiny?) with someone else all the time, but you can get cover for a scheduled meeting, that you volunteered for, with thousands of people all asking questions at the same time in real time. 2. Practise the platform before you attempt a time-sensitive task. Obviously.

Its always worth pointing out that Creasy's problem ISNT that she hasn't got access to childcare. She has. The HoP have childcare on site which is more than most have.

Her problem is that she didn't want to take it because her child is so young and MPs aren't given maternity leave.

Many women, cant take maternity leave for a whole host of reasons. She's not unique in this - realistically the rules for parliament can be changed but the financial reality for these other women cant.

These women wont have the option to have their wiggly baby with them at work either though.

There are 199 labour mps, 13 ld mps, 45 snp mps 1 green, 1 alliance, 3 plaid mps, 7 independent mps and 83 female tory mps. You need 325 for a majority in Parliament.

Just saying.

littlbrowndog · 03/02/2022 15:44

Stella creasy getting ridiculous now on Twitter. Bring Wayne couzens into this. Attacking a transwoman. He assaulted a drag queen apparently

Just strange that she is doing this 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Mumsnet Webchat about women/mums in politics with Stella Creasy and Caroline Nokes - 1st February

DomesticatedZombie · 03/02/2022 15:46

What is she on about?

DomesticatedZombie · 03/02/2022 15:47

Stella, for goodness' sake. Step away from Twitter. Come back on MN and have a calm, chilled out discussion on here. You'd be very welcome, we could explain things clearly.

DomesticatedZombie · 03/02/2022 15:54

@PearPickingPorky

I also find the whole pretense of this "webchat" interesting/ridiculous.

Nokes and Creasy supposed came here to ask "Why aren't more of you 'mums' interested in entering politics? What's holding you back?"

Yet they weren't interested in hearing from us 'mums' why we felt unable to enter public life. They - two women who are already in public life, and who have been for a long time, and to whom those barriers have not prohibited - have already decided what our answers should be, and what the solution is. And those solutions are things which benefit they two women already in parliament. They are entirely deaf to all the very politically engaged women who are stuck unable to enter politics, who are telling them what is stopping us.

Why are they pretending this is about encouraging more women IN to politics when what they are actually doing is trying to curate policies which benefit only the very privileged and unrepresentative few women who are already in, but don't address any of the issues for the women who want in but can't get in?

TD;DR - if you're so sure you already have the answer, don't bother fucking asking.

We're not here to lap praise upon you because you want to bring your baby to work.

curate policies which benefit only the very privileged and unrepresentative few women who are already in

Oof. More a demonstration/performance than an actually useful, informative, galvanising session?

Both have benefited - it seems - from various lucky circumstances. So we'd be better off having ... oh, I don't know. Any working class mothers in the HoC? Who didn't go to Uni? Who don't have access to childcare? To hear more about how women could overcome some of the barriers we face.

I did think the points about local politics were very pertinent. I can't and most women/mothers can't attend our wee retired boy's club community councils. No attempt to even consider the situation of mothers/carers, etc. And if you did make it there, you'd need Jackie Weaver levels of sufferance to handle the raging power-mad egodicks.

RedToothBrush · 03/02/2022 16:03

@littlbrowndog

Stella creasy getting ridiculous now on Twitter. Bring Wayne couzens into this. Attacking a transwoman. He assaulted a drag queen apparently

Just strange that she is doing this 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

And?

What happened if Wayne Couzens decided to identify as a woman tomorrow so he didn't have to serve his sentence in a male high security prison?

a) what would stop him doing so?
b) what is the process he would go through, and would this potentially be 'transphobic' or put women at risk?

If the answer to a) any is anything but 'he couldn't' then how do you deal with b)?

There is nothing in law to stop Couzens exploiting this. Thats the point!

What safeguards women if you just blindly accept that any male can just decide they are female?!

RedToothBrush · 03/02/2022 16:05

She's so nearly there with Wayne Couzens but somehow fails to put 2 and 2 together.

RedToothBrush · 03/02/2022 16:09

Stella askes

'What barriers have I had to overcome?'

When the real question is

'What barriers STOPPED other women?'

Fundamental but crucial difference.

RedToothBrush · 03/02/2022 16:14

And if you did make it there, you'd need Jackie Weaver levels of sufferance to handle the raging power-mad egodicks.

Wow, you've met my local council?

Oh wait.

DomesticatedZombie · 03/02/2022 16:21

Either we are neighbours, Red or this is a common pattern ...

Waitwhat23 · 03/02/2022 16:21

The village hall commitee I'm on is almost entirely composed of women but the only two men used to take over the conversation entirely at every meeting. It took women threatening to resign, stating that as an issue, before the (male) chair took it seriously and changed the format of the meetings. Men always seem to take over these sorts of meetings, even if there is a majority of women.

RedToothBrush · 03/02/2022 16:36

@Waitwhat23

The village hall commitee I'm on is almost entirely composed of women but the only two men used to take over the conversation entirely at every meeting. It took women threatening to resign, stating that as an issue, before the (male) chair took it seriously and changed the format of the meetings. Men always seem to take over these sorts of meetings, even if there is a majority of women.

The thing is the way things are done at local level is often discussion and decisions are made at closed party meetings BEFORE they reach the parish or council level.

This means that the room for parties to make fundamental changes to allow women to be more heard, effectively lie within parties, not so much as council meetings where people are elected.

I'm sure most people are 'lost to politics' long before they ever even consider sitting on a parish council in this way.

Its a big of an eye opener to find out that the important decisions and priortisation has already been decided before it even reaches somewhere, which has public accountability or transparency.

It means if you are deliberately shut out of party discussions, you are even less likely to get heard at council level. If you cant get someone to support your issue, then it can be binned off straight away. Its an easy dynamic with this set up to term anything you simply cant be bothered with as 'niche' and bin it off as unimportant.

BaronessWrongCrowdRex · 03/02/2022 17:33

@littlbrowndog

Stella creasy getting ridiculous now on Twitter. Bring Wayne couzens into this. Attacking a transwoman. He assaulted a drag queen apparently

Just strange that she is doing this 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

I suspect Stella knows that she is wrong on this issue. She knows that she’s made herself look like a prize prat. She has backed herself into a corner/dug herself into a hole that she can not get out of. She has to make her untenable position well…tenable. It’s like polishing a turd really. The more she tries the messier everything gets.

Franca123 · 03/02/2022 17:41

What do we pay MPs for if it's not to take the time to fully consider important issues like this. It makes me so angry that she is being paid a handsome salary by us, refuses to sort out child care and then is so ignorant on such an important issue. It has made me reconsider my views on our whole parliamentary system. I had quite a serious conversation last night about the merits of a randomly selected parliament. People would be called up to parliament like we are now for jury service. The current system is simply not giving us the calibre of people that we need.

RedToothBrush · 03/02/2022 17:44

I suspect Stella knows that she is wrong on this issue.

There are better ways to do this. Like organising an event for grown ups - women who like politics but would never go into it, and see where that gets you rather than coming up with 'Mums in politics' which goes with the stereotype of prams and baby brains from the get go.

The whole damn thing was set up on the basis of really quite backward stereotypes. Whether that was Creasy/Nokes or MNHQ but boy did it set the scene for a clash of politicians dumbing down to women who can eat them alive because they are so politicised.

I kind of despair tbh.

Artichokeleaves · 03/02/2022 17:50

There are many fiercely intelligent, well read, highly life experienced women who post here who would make outstanding MPs. With things like integrity, sense of duty and knowledge of basic things in real life like safeguarding.

ADisgruntledPelican · 03/02/2022 17:51

@littlbrowndog

Stella creasy on Twitter. Anyone who becomes a women. Just depressing

This is interesting as an insight into what Stella is doing. Firstly, she's acting as though the argument is about whether or not transwomen are oppressed or suffer under patriarchy.

Lots of different groups 'suffer' under patriarchy. But it's not the responsibility of feminism or women to fix it and crucially it's not what the debate between women and TRAs is about. Ask TRAs who suffers most ... and they will - despite all facts and statistics to the contrary - say its transwomen. Now, any Labour politician should be familiar with class analysis and be able to see why that is bullshit from earning potential to caring responsibilities; from DV and sexual harassment to lack of representation.

The other thing Stella is doing and has been doing all over Twitter since this was picked up - is trying to show she is firmly not GC. I think she's doing that because she doesn't want the TRAs looking too closely at the webchat. She won't want them to see she supported Rosie. She won't want them to read that she thinks women should be able to talk about periods, pregnancy and cervixes without being told its exclusionary. And she won't want them to read that she thinks there's no excuse for abusing women. Any one of those points could bring the TRAs down on her head.

Hasselhoffsheadband · 03/02/2022 18:02

Nice ratio on that Wayne Couzens tweet. 3hat the hell is she thinking tweeting shit like that?

TinselAngel · 03/02/2022 18:07

I'm copying my limerick over from the haiku thread just because I'm so pleased with it:

There once was a woman called Stella, who said misogyny could apply to a feller.
She came on this site, women thought she was shite,
And decamped to Twitter to tell her.