James O’Brien on now ‘pregnant people’

[GreekOlive]

Big fan of J’OB ON LBC but listening to Mystery Hour now and he’s continually saying: why does a sense of smell change in ‘pregnant people’ as one of the questions. It’s grating as well as ridiculous.

Anyone fancy ringing in to explain why a WOMAN’s smell changes in pregnancy?

@zmq3Zm96uijcs2c

How do you figure?

Anyway as we’re basing outcomes on feelings, I think continuously reminding medical staff of our personhood might combat the ingrained misogyny that runs through the profession.

Being called “Mummy” from sun up to sunset didn’t save me. It was patronising and frankly, coming from them, infuriatingly dehumanising.

I am a cis het female who visibly presents as such too, just FYI.

If you hope to fight misogyny by using words to hide the fact you are female when you give birth, then I think you are on a hiding to nothing.

They can still see you are woman and that will still affect how they treat you. Its why you can't opt out of sexism by changing your pronouns.

We need to change attitudes to women AS WOMEN to do that.

use of cis traumatises me, it is used by aggressive trans activists & misogynists who are gaslighting me & wish me harm

@BlueberryCheezecake

Women still not people in the GC world, I see.

The real world, then? Only women can be pregnant.

To be truly inclusive, the ploppers will have to refer to "carbon-based life-forms adjectively verbing carbon-based life-forms." Otherwise they're just hypocrites.

@oklets

I am a woman, I have given birth. I have no idea why people get so worked up about the use of inclusive language. Is it simply that you deny the existence of trans/non binary people?

Obviously they exist, but in the real world they are all biologically either men or women pretending to be something else.

We all know this to be true, however dressed up it is in “inclusive” language. “Identities” are in the mind; they are not bodies.

@BlueberryCheezecake

Women still not people in the GC world, I see.

Men still not people in the TRA world, I see.

See, I can make facile arguments too.

Pregnant person, people, woman, human, monkey, dog, cat, tasmanian devil, mouse...
Who cares. It's nitpicking. We all know what is meant.

@oklets

All I'm hearing is 'women have the right to be called women'. This is true, nobody is denying this. Then 'ONLY women give birth'. This is true only if you deny the existence of trans and non binary people. Think my question has been answered so toodles 👋🏼

You're saying that women have the right to be called women, but only if it's defined as men and women.

Got it. In all its blatant misogyny.

Bye.

What them wee Tasmanian devils got to do with pregnant women 🤣🤷‍♀️

@littlbrowndog

What them wee Tasmanian devils got to do with pregnant women 🤣🤷‍♀️

Well they don't care if you call them pregnant Tasmanian devils instead of Tasmanian she-devils.

Oh we know what's meant by it alright. That's why we are pushing back.

Well of course not Redlake Tasmanian devils can’t talkso no one knows how they feel (I mean really?)

however they know exactly which other type of Tasmanian devil you need to make a baby Tasmanian devil

JOB is smug and spineless. Makes out he is a paragon of logic and objective thinking, but underneath he’s terrified of being cancelled and every bit as self interested as the next person.

Such a shame they sacked Maajid.

The rush to pretend that the erasure of the use of the word "woman", when referring to anything to do with the female body, has absolutely nothing to do with the inclusion of gender questioning female human beings but everything to do with male people, who identify as women , and therefore feel excluded when the word " woman" is used to refer to female biology. This is clear from people like Munroe Bergdoff warning women on the Women's March not to discuss female health matters as it excludes males who identify as women and from the fact that no trans groups are advocating for a similar change of language when discussing male health matters.

This thread has reminded about the one day perfumery course I took many years ago, with about ten other women. We made our own perfumes, which was fun. Apparently men did occasionally take this course, but they were very much in the minority.

Anyway, the perfumer leading the course told us that the perfume industry was very male-dominated. One woman asked why that was, seeing as we’d already discussed how women had the better sense of smell. The perfumer, a man who’d been in the industry for many years, said something about how the men knew that and therefore had “kept the women out at all costs”.

The old attitude of “keeping it for the boys”, must have excluded some of the best perfumery talent - risking profitability and and a company’s competitive edge. I’d say something about how the men were literally cutting off their own noses to spite their faces, but that would be a terrible pun.

I am a cis het female who visibly presents as such too, just FYI.

Can you explain how I ‘visibly’ present as this? I’m currently wearing my DH top and his joggers. Does that make me a cis male? Or am I a lesbian? Or am I bi? What am I?????

Shit I really had not realised my presentation impacted my capacity to give birth! I had clearly misunderstood and thought it was something completely different!

Just to clarify.

I am an adult female, a woman. This is why I can (and have) given birth.

As a woman I respectively ask to be referred to as a woman. In tern I will respect others by referring to them as trans men.

Turn

Do not call me cis

That has to be the take away message, doesn't it?

I don't care how you present, or think of, yourself. Just don't make demands of me that are inherently negative for me.

Start with don't call me cos, do refer to me as female, woman.

And then maybe I will honour your wish to be referred to by a feminine name.

I don't care how you present, or think of, yourself. Just don't make demands of me that are inherently negative for me

Quite. Its a real eye opener into how lowly women are viewed, that this is considered unreasonable.

Or rather, that people just don't think through that some of the demands are inherently negative for women: and that women's voices aren't worth listening to, when we point out that they are.

Trans people exist.
Transwomen are men.
Transmen are women.
Non-binary people can be either women or men.
Only women give birth.
Everything above is logical and consistent.

It’s all very simple and clear unless you go out of your way to make it much more complicated than it needs to be.

Growing up I instinctively knew I was never going to be a famous millionaire footballer. 100% of them are people and yet somehow also 0% of them are people.

If only we had a word to describe which people are shut out of that lucrative work.

"""All I'm hearing is 'women have the right to be called women'. This is true, nobody is denying this. Then 'ONLY women give birth'. This is true only if you deny the existence of trans and non binary people. Think my question has been answered so toodles""""..........

Oh look, another drive-by scolding.
You know only women give birth don't you? Because "woman" means those people of the FEMALE sex. With female reproductive capacity (whether it works or not, whether it has ceased to function or not, whether they have gone through menopause or not, whether they have had their reproductive organs removed or not).
No man has ever or will ever give birth.
Nobody 'denies' the existence of trans people, but we know that their biological sex never changes. In fact, it is people like YOU who deny the very REAL (and by real, I mean provable, documented, and true) existence of biological fact.
Woman means adult human female. Only this kind of human has ever been pregnant or given birth.
Therefore, only women give birth. It's actually very simple. Self identity does not change biological reality. I might identify as a chicken tomorrow, but I won't start laying eggs. My biological reality is that of an adult human female.
I don't know why it has to be so confusing to some people, really, a five year old child can grasp that there are two types of human and which ones have the babies.
Your word salad and obfuscation of the facts won't change that.

But you're not on this thread anymore are you? Drive-by scolding accomplished.