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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Girl Guides: Nottingham - senders of objection emails referred to Police

374 replies

mammajustkilledagnat · 19/01/2022 11:25

Anyone else seen this on Twitter? I mean, what the bloody hell?

twitter.com/MDayCassandra/status/1483731590232657922

OP posts:
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18
Terfydactyl · 21/01/2022 17:44

Raising a safeguarding concern would be quietly contacting Girl Guides letting them know about what you've seen and allowing them to use their internal policies to respond in the way they deem appropriate. And not expecting then to give you details of any confidential investigative and disciplinary matters that might be pursued
Safeguarding is not a thing to be done in the dark or under the counter. Its meant to be open otherwise how do we know anything at all has been done to address anything.

Bombarding Girl Guides with emails and encouraging others to do
the same demanding this person be sacked and making innuendo about them being a risk to children is not raising a safeguarding concern - not least because as the GC teacher on this thread
posted, this would probably merit a warning (at most I'd argue). And
it is quite possible she has been warned
Have you had sight of all the emails? How many were there? What was the content?

What is now taking place now is a campaign of harassment. Imagine how you would feel if hundreds of people were writing to your employer demanding you were sacked and making horrifying unevidenced comments about you on social media for making a mistake at work
So how does maya feel after losing her job, jkr after being hounded etc etc?
She's probably scared to leave the house and with good reason
Is she scared to leave the house or are you projecting?

Whatever you think of her pics, they are not a sackable offence, they do not represent a safeguarding risk to children - as the teaching tribunal found when reprimanding the dominatrix, consensual
and legal adult sexual behaviour does not constitute a safeguarding risk to children - and there is simply no reason for her to be the target of this onslaught of harassment
Dont give a shit about the pics, I've seen worse, I do give a shit about children who should not be able to easily Google someone name and find those pics. Is there an onslaught? Or are you projecting again?

It's only a matter of time before the GC movement has a Lucy Meadows on their hands - we've seen what this kind of
harassment can do to people especially when it involves their employment. Not that I expect many of you would care
So everyone's gonna lay off posie and jkr and glimmer and the rest of us yeah?
Cos you wouldnt want a suicide on your hands now.

barleybadminton · 21/01/2022 17:49

@ArabellaScott

consensual and legal adult sexual behaviour does not constitute a safeguarding risk to children

Posting it on social media is the problem. Either the person posting is so hugely unaware of very basic propriety they shouldn't be in a position of responsibility, or they are doing it on purpose.

The dominatrix had a website where she listed the services available, as well as publicly accessible profiles in which she talked about her kinks. It was way way more explicit than anything Monica Sulley has posted. And I was incorrect earlier, she wasn't suspended, she was placed on a 2 year reprimand because it was felt her web presence might have brought the school or profession into disrepute. However the General Teaching Council, who know far more about safeguarding than any of the self appointed experts on this thread, very clearly pointed out that her activites did not mean she was a risk to children and that was not the reason for the reprimand.
Terfydactyl · 21/01/2022 17:49

Took so long editing last post I missed this

This isn't NSPCC wanking man, it's a leather dress and a daft joke and a stupid comment about boobs

Ffs is there anyone at all thinks this is a good rebuttal?
Anyone?

Mummyoflittledragon · 21/01/2022 18:00

Rowling is a public figure who chose to enter into this debate.

What debate? It is not a debate. It is a hostile takeover of women and womanhood (‘welcome to your erasure’) and systematic dismantling of safeguarding practices for women and girls.

As for the assertion that Rowling is a public figure. Sulley must have reached a certain level of renoun to have been noticed by the GG movement. You said yourself @barleybadminton that Sulley was invited and chose to represent a branch of a public worldwide movement. Anyone wishing to do so leaves themselves open to public scrutiny.

It is deeply personal, more than a bit creepy and frankly verging on sexual abuse

That’s quite an assertion. Have there been any incidents, where people have had to make a public apology?

Helleofabore · 21/01/2022 18:09

Ummm!

Anyone posting photos of themselves on publicly available social media is a ‘public figure’.

That is the end result of posting on not locked down privacy setting social media accounts.

Sorry. That is a very weak argument. Calling Joanne Rowling a ‘public’ figure in comparison is another false equivalence. After all, she is not posting photos of herself in BDSM gear and a whip and not asking people to comment on her breasts. Nor would she post an in-bath photo over a line of identifiable small girls.

Anyone posting photos of themselves to open social media becomes a ‘public’ figure.

barleybadminton · 21/01/2022 18:10

As for the assertion that Rowling is a public figure. Sulley must have reached a certain level of renoun to have been noticed by the GG movement. You said yourself @barleybadminton that Sulley was invited and chose to represent a branch of a public worldwide movement. Anyone wishing to do so leaves themselves open to public scrutiny.

I didn't say that as it happens, I have no idea why she was recruited, I presumed it was because she was already a Girl Guide volunteer, I find it hard to believe the Guides are actively targetting random people and asking them to become leaders.

And she is a bus driver who was in no way a public figure. Rowling is one of the world's best selling authors with millions of twitter followers and the means, as we have seen, to use lawyers when she feels criticism has overstepped the mark. Sulley has no such privilege, which is why people are getting away with the wild speculation about her supposed paraphilias that they are.

RepentMotherfucker · 21/01/2022 18:13

Wild speculation = surmising an interest in BDSM from a photo featuring a person in a leather corset holding a whip and calling themselves 'Mistress'

Grin

No wonder the art of inference is being lost!

yourhairiswinterfire · 21/01/2022 18:19

who know far more about safeguarding than any of the self appointed experts on this thread

Self appointed? You know some women here are experts on safeguarding, right? We're more than just baby brained mums Hmm

and frankly verging on sexual abuse.

You're pointing out nicely how low some will stoop, comparing women to sexual abusers in an attempt to shame them into shutting up. It won't work (it's been attempted before).

Mummyoflittledragon · 21/01/2022 18:28

@barleybadminton
I stand corrected on you being the person, who said Sulley was invited. However, the public figure point stands.

What about my question regarding public apologies for behaviour verging on sexual abuse? Has anyone been forced to make one to Sulley?

allmywhat · 21/01/2022 19:23

Rowling is a public figure who chose to enter into this debate. And she has not had hundreds of people speculating about her sexuality, or what paraphilias people have decided she may or may not have. It is deeply personal, more than a bit creepy and frankly verging on sexual abuse.

Not verging on sexual abuse: posting porn on Twitter threads where children are showing off their artwork,; attempting to intimidate a person at their home with a "don't be a cissy" sign; graphic rape threats.

Verging on sexual abuse: pointing out that a volunteer for a children's charity is flagrantly violating safeguarding protocols.

D-A-R-V-O
And DARVO was his name-o...

ANewCreation · 21/01/2022 19:27

This is a real time demonstration of a safeguarding framework failure.

GGs used to have a particularly rigorous sex-based safeguarding framework (particularly with regard to male volunteers/sons of guiders) which meant that historically GGs have had an excellent safeguarding record.

All statistics show that girls are at low (but not no) risk from women, which is why there are still DBS checks etc.

GGs as an organisation have now moved away from a sex-based model to a gender-based model (possibly under guidance from Amy "incapable of understanding safeguarding" Challenor and Jane "extreme porn advocate" Fae) which massively increases the risk profile they are exposing girls to, because males are just statistically more violent/more likely to be sexual offenders etc than females.

There is no evidence that transition changes that risk profile from a male to a female one.

I don't want my guide-aged daughter's school teachers, religious leader, youth group worker, dance teacher, sports club leader, swimming coach, doctor, school nurse etc, (irrespective of whether they are men or women) to have a social media public profile with them dressed in fetish wear or pointing a weapon.

I do not share those values.
I believe it shows a serious lack of judgement.

I think carefully about how and where my daughter spends her time and the calibre of individual she spends it with. And I would rather she spend her time with decent adults who have a deep understanding of boundaries and consent and safeguarding, when she does need to engage with them. And in organisations which understand that if I raise a safeguarding concern it is because I am concerned about keeping children safe not because my views on sex are too 'vanilla' or because I don't precisely know what type of gun is being brandished...

Things are tough enough for young teenage girls without this crap.

We have learnt several new things.

GGs claimed to have a 'rigorous' vetting procedure.

But now we know that GGs aren't bothered by pictures of their guiders in fetish wear or brandishing a gun and they are no bar to becoming a relatively senior leader.

One of the basic tenets of child safeguarding is that everyone has a responsibility to report any concerns to the appropriate DSL. This is assumed to be a confidential exchange.

Now we know that GGs feel that an appropriate response to a safeguarding concern being raised is to report the concerned individuals to the police. This is mind boggling.

And if, as spero says, the correspondence she saw was not extreme, what on earth were the police thinking to question people raising safeguarding concerns?

Whichever way you look at it, this is a safeguarding framework failure, the consequence of which is that Girl Guides are currently unable to carry out their duty to safeguard girls in their care.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 21/01/2022 19:34

that's a lot of words to say "no, I've not got any evidence"

It was wasnt it…

And now it will be completely ignored by that poster

KatieAlcock · 21/01/2022 19:36

More or less anyone who can pass a DBS can be a Guider.
More or less any Guider who is foolish enough to put their hand up can be a Commissioner.

Goatsaregreat · 21/01/2022 19:43
Grin The male supremacist has awoken to lecture woman about failing to obey the demands of males to breach fundamental safeguarding principles. It is Sulley who has exposed Sulley's paraphilias - not GG parents, frightened children or GC woman. Sulley is merely being held to the same standards that others who work with children are held to. The adults who are determined to erode safeguarding principles for children are the problem.
Helleofabore · 21/01/2022 19:43

@allmywhat

Rowling is a public figure who chose to enter into this debate. And she has not had hundreds of people speculating about her sexuality, or what paraphilias people have decided she may or may not have. It is deeply personal, more than a bit creepy and frankly verging on sexual abuse.

Not verging on sexual abuse: posting porn on Twitter threads where children are showing off their artwork,; attempting to intimidate a person at their home with a "don't be a cissy" sign; graphic rape threats.

Verging on sexual abuse: pointing out that a volunteer for a children's charity is flagrantly violating safeguarding protocols.

D-A-R-V-O
And DARVO was his name-o...

Indeed
Helleofabore · 21/01/2022 19:47

More or less anyone who can pass a DBS can be a Guider.

Particularly if they go by different names and don’t disclose them all. We know this person goes by 3 different surnames right now.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 21/01/2022 19:53

I'd not heard about the dominatrix teacher that @barleybadminton keeps mentioning. Google gave me this www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1385953/Primary-school-teacher-led-double-life-kinky-sex-dominatrix-free-continue-working-children.html

I can see one, significant difference between the case of the teacher and the case of the Guide leader/advisor.

Can you guess what it is?

ChristinaXYZ · 21/01/2022 19:57

@ArabellaScott

consensual and legal adult sexual behaviour does not constitute a safeguarding risk to children

Posting it on social media is the problem. Either the person posting is so hugely unaware of very basic propriety they shouldn't be in a position of responsibility, or they are doing it on purpose.

Exactly. A teacher would loose his or her job.
ArabellaScott · 21/01/2022 20:25

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

I'd not heard about the dominatrix teacher that *@barleybadminton* keeps mentioning. Google gave me this www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1385953/Primary-school-teacher-led-double-life-kinky-sex-dominatrix-free-continue-working-children.html

I can see one, significant difference between the case of the teacher and the case of the Guide leader/advisor.

Can you guess what it is?

Well, for one she used a pseudonym, she wasn't posting publically under her real name.

'Using the name Mistress Saffron'

TurquoiseBaubles · 21/01/2022 20:30

This isn't NSPCC wanking man, it's a leather dress and a daft joke and a stupid comment about boobs

But, but, but we weren't allowed to complain about NSPCC wanking rubber man either, as that was allegedly homophobic.

Everything that happens doesn't, quite, reach barley's definition of a safeguarding concern. But as more and more things happen, barley and her ilk have to move the line ...

ArabellaScott · 21/01/2022 20:31

'This isn't just NSPCC wanking, this is M&S wanking'

ArabellaScott · 21/01/2022 20:32

Sorry, S&M.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 21/01/2022 20:40

Oh, I bet M+S wanking would be really luxurious. I'm more of an Aldi girl myself.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 21/01/2022 20:47

And, @ArabellaScott, Miss Saffron doesn't belong to a class of people who inconveniently terrify, dehumanise, abuse, assault or kill us. Hashtag not all men, of course.

It's not got to do with Monica's trans status, it's to do with Monica's sex. Though, the titillation, guns, and ill fitting fetish wear don't exactly help the "don't worry, I'm one of the good ones" vibe that a man who was genuinely enthusiastic about girls getting to enjoy Guiding might radiate.

My dad used to help with the Brownies and Guides all the time, and he managed to do it without once getting his cock out. Didn't realise at the the time how inspirational he was.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 21/01/2022 21:38

Though, the titillation, guns, and ill fitting fetish wear don't exactly help the "don't worry, I'm one of the good ones" vibe that a man who was genuinely enthusiastic about girls getting to enjoy Guiding might radiate.

Slight tangent. I'd be deeply concerned if a man were doing this for Scouts, Junior or Sea Cadets, or similar. tbh, I'd be worried if this were a football, swimming, or other coach for children.

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