Sperm stealing and men's rights - what do you think?

[loubeatty]

Hi guys,
Wanted to get your thoughts on a recent petition to make 'spurgling' - pretending you're on the pill when you're not to get pregnant - a serious sexual offence. Has anyone had any experience of this (or known friends who have)? (Is it just an urban legend, essentially?!) ...Do you think it should be a serious crime?

You need to provide a link to what you’re asking people to comment on.

Yes I do think it should be a serious crime, but how would you prove it? Accidents happen - how can you tell it’s not an accident?

I know someone who did it. I don’t see how it could be proven in court though. It can’t really go further than ‘she told me she was on the pill’ and ‘no I didn’t’.

It’s unworkable. The petition will go nowhere. You could potentially ask women to prove that they had a prescription for the pill, but then how do you distinguish between women forgetting once or twice and women deliberately not talking it?
Also, how could you tell whether a women lied and said ´It’s ok, I’m on the pill’ or told the truth and said ´I’m not on the pill, but I don’t mind risking it’. There are usually no witnesses to these conversations. Totally pointless petition.

never heard of that but I think it's unlikely to ever be an offence legally as the man could wear a condom (and should).

Also, in a very very casual relationship the man would be stupid to take the word of a total stranger, but then, in a more serious relationship it's a different situation because there is a betrayal there. The two situations are totally different.

Surely most of the risk of "spurgling" is on the woman.
She'll be the one raising a baby either on her own or with a husband who doesn't want the baby, who can leave of he wants and exes are notorious for dodging child maintenance. She might get normal health complications that any pregnant women can get.

It's really all risk on the woman. Men don't really need to worry about this, not seriously.

There's also the fact that "oops DH I'm pregnant" and DH is overjoyed sometimes. Who doesn't love babies?

Bad people. That's who.
Bad people don't like babies.

Both partners take their own responsibility for contraception, so you have belts & braces protection. If you consent to sexual activity, then you consent to potential conception and the consequences of that. Don’t have penetrative sex if you don’t want to be responsible for either a termination or a co-parenting relationship.

@UserBot999

never heard of that but I think it's unlikely to ever be an offence legally as the man could wear a condom (and should).

This 👆 If a man wants to be sure of dodging parenthood, he needs to take responsibility for his own fertility. So condoms or vasectomy.

This also raises the issue of the male pill.

We all know it's possible, but no let's experiment on women's sexual health before compromising a man's virility.

A man could wear a condom if he's that worried too.

I was kind of thinking about this the other day after reading about the rapper Drake. Apparently he had consensual sex with a condoms and then afterwards went into the bathroom, removed the filled condom and put hot sauce in it to kill the sperm. Then his sex partner went into the bathroom and injected the semen into her and started screaming about the burns. Apparently she is now trying to sue him?!

I think as a society Wet need to reset the view of unwanted/unexpected pregnancy. So It's not the woman's fault she gets pregnant, it's the man's fault for irresponsible ejaculation. We need to teach our mates that their reproductive autonomy ends the second they ejaculate into a woman.

It should ABSOLUTELY be a crime if a woman digs out a used condom out of the trash and used it to create a life wether it's for a link to the genetics or financial reasons. That is a horrific thing to do. And it's not the same as a a woman saying she is on the pill but not being on the pill. The man, if he does not want a child, should either abstain, have a vasectomy or use a condom and spermicide and dispose of them securely. To say " but she said she was on the pill" is a cop out that just shifts blame to the woman

@UserBot999

never heard of that but I think it's unlikely to ever be an offence legally as the man could wear a condom (and should).

Let’s reverse this and test the outcome.

A woman isn’t on any contraception, asks man to wear condom, man doesn’t, woman becomes pregnant.

Would you say ‘tough she should have taken her own precautions such as going on the pill’?

Or would you be furious with the man for lying?

Any lie that is so egregious that it would cause the other person to change the decision to have sex is a violation of free and informed consent.

I wish there was a way for the law to reflect that, but in reality, it would be incredibly difficult to prosecute.

That said, any man who has condom free sex with a woman he doesn’t know well enough to trust about birth control is an idiot. He also certainly doesn’t know her well enough to trust her to be having sex without protection from disease.

I think any man who doesn’t wish to create a pregnancy should be using a condom. Having condom free sex isn’t a need, it’s a choice, so I don’t think anyone saying “I was conned into giving her my semen” would stand a chance because there is literally no need for him to not use a condom. Her saying “I’m on the pill” doesn’t remove his choice- he can still choose to use a condom. And everyone knows the pill isn’t 100% reliable even when taken correctly. The onus is on every man to control where his semen goes.

And a further question:

If it was possible to prove - eg clear messages from the woman admitting to it - should it be criminalised?

That said, any man who has condom free sex with a woman he doesn’t know well enough to trust about birth control is an idiot. He also certainly doesn’t know her well enough to trust her to be having sex without protection from disease.

Are women idiots for going home with men they barely know? And trusting them not to harm them?

Or would you be furious with the man for lying?

Well I believe that's why Julian Assange got in so much trouble.

But it's glaringly incomparable.

"Barebacking" is a huge problem in the prostitution trade. Men take the condom off halfway through, don't care if they get the woman pregnant, they are getting another human pregnant and they can run off. The woman is left with an unwanted baby.

This scenario, "spurgling/spealing" the baby is wanted and it's the man who's not always wanted. It's more comparable to an act of self harm than harm onto another.

It all comes down to proof doesn't it

My friend did it he used to force feed her the pill daily and check her mouth to make sure she took it she would retch it back up eventually she got pregnant they stayed together and had three children

Never occurred to him condoms were free

lifeisnteasy in your example, contraception does not have the same function as wearing a condom. The pill doesn't protect against disease.

@Lifeisnteasy

And a further question:

If it was possible to prove - eg clear messages from the woman admitting to it - should it be criminalised?

A woman isn’t on any contraception, asks man to wear condom, man doesn’t, woman becomes pregnant. no condom risks more than just pregnancy though and the pill doesn't protect against that so there is a difference

But if we are purely focussing on pregnancy which is the point of this thread.

I met a woman in antenatal classes who is now a mother of three. Before they married her DH said he did not want children.

She "accidentally" fell pregnant with the first one. Negotiated a sibling. "Accidentally" fell pregnant with a third.

She has convinced him that the issue is that his sperm is so super strong it cannot be stopped by the pill and condoms. He's a man with an ego which is boosted by the idea of his super strong jizz.

He appears to have accepted this without question.

Having known her I will be warning my teenage sons that a woman who wants to get pregnant will get pregnant. If they do not want to be fathers then they need to supply their own condoms and put it on themself (she stabbed theirs through the packet with a pin!). And don't believe that she's on the pill, there might be pills there, they might look as though they are being taken, but it's very easy to chuck it down the loo rather than your throat.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-cleared-judges-say-lying-18653327

If a man can get away with this, I see no reason why women can't lie about taking the pill and get away with it.
What your opinion on the matter, OP?

I think men would be best served by campaigning for the development and widespread distribution of a male contraceptive pill.

Morally you can Compare splirglung to stealthing. This is where the man takes off a condom half way through sex without the woman's knowledge or consent. This is clearly assault because she hasn't consented to that specific act.

In the case of splurging, the man hasn't consented to that act in a similar way.

However evidentially I don't know how you'd prove it! The pill when taken correctly is 98% or something like that. But often people don't take it correctly.

With any vaginal sex with a man and a woman there is a risk of pregnancy.

So I'm torn!

@Theunamedcat

It all comes down to proof doesn't it

My friend did it he used to force feed her the pill daily and check her mouth to make sure she took it she would retch it back up eventually she got pregnant they stayed together and had three children

Never occurred to him condoms were free

JFC. Did she escape this abusive relationship in the end?