Sperm stealing and men's rights - what do you think?

[loubeatty]

Hi guys,
Wanted to get your thoughts on a recent petition to make 'spurgling' - pretending you're on the pill when you're not to get pregnant - a serious sexual offence. Has anyone had any experience of this (or known friends who have)? (Is it just an urban legend, essentially?!) ...Do you think it should be a serious crime?

No more jouno feeding can’t everyone see thats wats happening here.

Or get a vasectomy 🤷‍♀️

Its legally unenforceable.

If a man doesn't want a baby, he should take responsibility for himself primarily by refraining from sex or using a condom even if his partner is on the pill, otherwise he is taking that risk.

Same as women having sex always have the risk of pregnancy and using a condom is a back up for if the pill fails for her.

These are men who wish to vilify women for their own inability or willingness to take responsibility themselves.

It sucks to have to take responsibility doesn't it? Women have done forever...

The pill can fail if you're sick out have diarrhoea. No contraception is 100% effective. I don't see how this would be enforceable.

allhiphop.com/rumors/instagram-model-alleges-drake-put-hot-sauce-in-his-used-condom-to-stop-groupies-from-stealing-his-sperm/

This story has been going around the internet in recent days (source is social media, so it's unverified). Summary- rapper Drake has sex with instagram model, then afterwards he puts hot chilli sauce into the condom (to "kill the sperm") and ties a knot in it and bins it. She then apparently takes it out of the bin when he isn't there and attempts to impregnate herself with it.

What's the aim - throw pregnant women in prison for this proposed offence, let them give birth in jail, let them breast feed in jail, take their babies away? Setting aside how difficult it would be to prove (or how dangerous it would be to leave some sort of discretion to the police/CPS given their track record with women) what is to be gained by criminalising women who get pregnant?!?

This can happen - my brother's best friend dated a woman who deliberately got pregnant and then refused to let him see the child. He seriously considered taking her to court and even went to a lawyer, but in the end he decided that it was going to make the situation worse rather than better for the kid.

It really bothered him for a long time - just a terrible thing to do.

But like others have said, difficult to prove.

@RedToothBrush

Its legally unenforceable.

If a man doesn't want a baby, he should take responsibility for himself primarily by refraining from sex or using a condom even if his partner is on the pill, otherwise he is taking that risk.

Same as women having sex always have the risk of pregnancy and using a condom is a back up for if the pill fails for her.

These are men who wish to vilify women for their own inability or willingness to take responsibility themselves.

It sucks to have to take responsibility doesn't it? Women have done forever...

If you said this though, that a woman can't really complain if, say, a man deliberately puts a hole in a condom or removes it, she should be on the pill just in case and it's her responsibility, I don't think many people would accept it. In fact I think you'd get a lot of push-back here, and the necessity that women do this shows that men are really awful.

Oh right this. MRA thing obv.

Goes along with what's it called. Financial abortion or something?

Impact on unwanted/ unanticipated/ because dodgy behaviour pregnancy is obv way more serious for women.

Idea that women steal semen??!!

I mean sure may happen but... It's essentially an MRA women awful freakout with what stats?

And if happens...

Ok. Woman sneaks out after sex gets hold of come (from condom with spermicide which most used to have at least). Pours into turkey baster and squirts in...

Serious sexual assault? No. Man taking condom off during sex is non consensual sex.

It would need to be. Theft of genetic material or similar.

Anyway say big crime long time prison.

Woman prison pregnant. Baby born prison. Depending on country, baby removed from mother some point young and placed in hopefully her family. Or care.

Obv father not interested.

Chances then baby removed from mum before old enough to remember her. Zero interest dad. Care system.

Overall life prospects v statistically likely to be massively reduced. Much higher chance of MH probs, addiction, poverty, sexual exploitation from teen, homelessness...

This drake fella.

Chili sauce not usually in bathroom.

Went and got from kitchen?
Had put in there in advance?

Why chili sauce? That's bizarre. Wash out with hot water bit of soap done.

So he planned this. Why?

Something v odd going on here I mean obviously.

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

No. Men need to use condoms or have vasectomies if they don't want children. If they trust a partner who then lies to them that is terrible but it's not a criminal offence.

The result of a partner lying to them is huge- its not just a bit of hurt feelings. The emotional, financial and psychological effects are huge. Sometimes there are "witnesses" (they told a friend) but I think it would be so hard to prove. Women who do this are horrible. Really horrible.

A man who doesn't want a child right now obviously isn't going to have a vasectomy (unless you think not wanting a child with someone he went on a couple of dates with means he should never be allowed to have a child?) A condom yes but that's not widely used in trusting relationships. Should every man accuse his partner of potentially lying to him and wear a condom every time? That would be the end of many relationships. Or should they trust them like a normal human would?

@saleorbouy

The solution is quite simple, "wrap it up" before engaging in sex with someone you don't trust or want to parent with.

Or just don't have casual sex. It's not obligatory.

'A condom yes but that's not widely used in trusting relationships. Should every man accuse his partner of potentially lying to him and wear a condom every time? That would be the end of many relationships. Or should they trust them like a normal human would?'

Is it not? Common in LTR?

Plenty use condoms. Often due to female partner being fucked off with taking hormone interfering drugs for years.

And it's a mixed bag for us. Nice to not use for sure. OTOH. No come leaking out for fair old while. And it's smelly tbh. No wet patch. 6 of one etc.

IME WHO prefers no condom. To the extent really big deal, which sex feel more strongly? Hate them. No way. Don't care what happens just no way using condom. If worried MAP no probs...

That would be men. And plenty who will not wear even ONS.

In my life I've met two men who were firm. Condoms fuck that. Not ones I've slept with. But had this situation many times in past where man refuses.

Bloke A had, at 27 maybe. Ex wife 2 kids. 3 (and counting) babies with various other women.

Bloke B. Baby with GF when they both 20. Told me ONS girl Pg going to keep it. He said I've told her nothing to do with me, no money no interest do what you want.

I said. You are aware you can wear a condom FFS?

he said. Nah. Don't like them.

Who drives not using condom? Come on you know answer.

So many threads on here. Pill etc makes me ill. He won't use condom. He won't have snip. He wants sex.

A condom yes but that's not widely used in trusting relationships. Should every man accuse his partner of potentially lying to him and wear a condom every time? That would be the end of many relationships. Or should they trust them like a normal human would?

My husband did for years. I can't now remember why I came off the pill. I didn't have problems with it but for some reason I did and we used condoms only.

I'm going to go against the grain here on the view that no method of contraception is 100% safe. I used the pill on its own and latterly we used condoms on their own. The only time I didn't use a contraceptive I became pregnant. If used properly condoms are very effective.

That's not against the grain it's true.

Condoms are if used correctly v effective.

And if used incorrectly surely better than nothing. Esp if wanting to protect self from possibility woman/older girl telling fibs about contraception/could steal semen... (!!??!!).

If man that worried-

Have fab sexy times without PIV. Not pushing anal. All the other good stuff. Who focused PIV? Generally men, plenty women don't get off on it.

-wear condom. Hot sauce? Bizarre. Hot water bit of soap easy. Or just tip down bog. Will reduce risk of being able to steal (!!) enough semen to get Pg. On the clearly vv low chance woman with (as per drake) is vv peculiar.

IME women and girls WAY more interested in protection than blokes.

And blokes should be.
Pregnancy only one thing.
What about STD risk??? With ONS or new partner.

Women and girls bear the brunt if Pg. Really massive decisions which will impact life either way. Pregnancy birth hardly trivial. Future- work, restriction freedom, let's face it possible dates etc not so keen if she has kid esp younger. Societal judgement. Responsibility....

Big stuff.

And this financial abortion, sperm stealing stuff.

There's never any thought at all about the child. That however came about is their child.

It's usually about MONEY.

that says everything tbh.

The suggestion that stealing sperm is a widespread risk for men. And that it should be specifically made illegal and with harsh prison time.

There's zero thought, consideration, concern, pause, anything.

Around the fact that imprisoning Pg woman for years. It will be the child that pays the biggest price.

While zero interest in what wanted means in practice.

Frankly not interested.

I did warn my 4 sons about predatory girls that didn’t care if they got pregnant and only wanted a meal ticket. It was meant to be over the top advice, it certainly struck home because none of them fathered any children before they got married.

I'm going to go against the grain here on the view that no method of contraception is 100% safe. I used the pill on its own and latterly we used condoms on their own. The only time I didn't use a contraceptive I became pregnant. If used properly condoms are very effective.

This is similar to me too. However, we used both for a years as well. For the simple reason that we wanted back up protection against pregnancy.

No single method is 100% safe and until mobile phones came with alarms, it was easy to get distracted and forget a pill if you were working late, out at work functions, or travelling. And no wet patches with condoms.

@CheeseMmmm

This drake fella.

Chili sauce not usually in bathroom.

Went and got from kitchen?
Had put in there in advance?

Why chili sauce? That's bizarre. Wash out with hot water bit of soap done.

So he planned this. Why?

Something v odd going on here I mean obviously.

Yeah, that story make no sense at all. A quick Google tells me this is a 35yo man behaving like a particularly immature teenager.

What a warped view he has of women. That I imagine he's sharing through his music. Not a mentally healthy man, I hope women see this as sign to stay away from him.

A condom yes but that's not widely used in trusting relationships. Should every man accuse his partner of potentially lying to him and wear a condom every time? That would be the end of many relationships. Or should they trust them like a normal human would?

It would end many relationships? Wearing a condom?

Or should they trust like a normal human being?

So….. the sole source of contraception is laid on women in these relationships. The man has to do nothing at all, just enjoy.

And this poster suggests not wearing a condom will end the relationship? Well ok, if another form of male contraceptive is used.

Otherwise, I’d suggest that it is the lack of responsibility for taking equal share in something vitally important to the partnership that might end up causing issues in the relationship. Are other areas of the partnership as unequal, or just this one.

I’d also suggest there are some males who expects ‘only the female’ to take on ALL the side effects of the pill, including the potential long term adverse ones. After all those men think ‘it is only a pill’ or an implant or whatever- having to be done regularly by the woman. Putting their bodies at risk.

For what? Not wearing a bit of rubber during sex?

Yeah… all equal innit?

Wife work, innit?

My daughter has mentioned boys shes been with being quite happy to have sex without a condom…she refuses as obviously its not just pregnancy which is an issue

Following this (and prior….but now ive really ramped up my game) I've had a few conversations with ds2 about wearing a condom whether the woman is using the pill or not

My sex Ed to the DCs is that sex can result in pregnancy whatever precautions are taken. It goes with the territory as hopefully does the maturity to talk about contraception and any unexpected consequences. DD told that you can’t expect the man to either want or support any child; DS that while you can walk away emotionally you are very likely going to have pay and supporting the woman through whatever she chooses is part of being mature enough to have a relationship

@MattDillonsEyebrows

I'm not sure this will even be an issue as I think the majority of men see contraception purely as a women's issue.

About 10 years ago, I knew two women who were single in their 30's, both stable women in secure jobs, thinking about their biological clocks. They decided that, whilst they weren't going to actively try to get pregnant, they were going to stop taking precautions against it and see what happened.

They were completely honest with every man they slept with, "I am not using contraception, I am happy for you to do so if you want, but if I get pregnant I am keeping the baby'.

One wasn't in a relationship, had sex with different people, the other in a casual fwb situation with a man already in a relationship with someone else.

Not one man chose to use a condom.

One got pregnant, and now is a fab single mum, the other didn't and sadly won't have children now, as she's too old.

In the 90s I worked with a woman who did something similar. She owned her own home outright and was financially independent. She'd been dating men in the hope of finding Mr Right, marrying and starting a family and but was running out of time. So she continued dating but told them she couldn't use the pill for health reasons and that contraception was down to them. Most of them were happy to risk it. She did get pregnant but the relationship didn't last. She didn't put his surname on the birth certificate and she didn't pursue him for child support.

It would end many relationships? Wearing a condom

I think you are being deliberately obtuse. If I was in a long term relationship and someone said they didn’t believe I was taking the pill and might try and trick them into having a baby then I would be pretty hurt

And no it’s not fucking wife work. I prefer to use the contraception and hate condoms therefore I would do that. If I was with someone and didn’t like using hormonal contraception I would expect them to use condoms without complaining

It’s called a relationship. And not always assuming that women are always hard done by

I mean realistically in the event of an unplanned pregnancy in a casual relationship or ONS its the woman who's gonna be buggered isn't it? She goes through the pregnancy, the birth. Her employment is affected. The bloke can chose to have nothing to do with his child at all and there won't be much the mother can do about it. Which I'm sure this kind of man would be more than happy to do.

Really the only answer for men who don't want to be fathers is to take an active responsibility for their sexual health.