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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How can I, as an individual transwoman, can make a stand against the TRA avalanche?

129 replies

simmonslulu · 05/01/2022 16:42

A thread created in response to a post on another thread.

Any advice gratefully received

OP posts:
simmonslulu · 07/01/2022 12:52

@JollyHostess

Thank you for taking the time to ask and for caring. It can't be easy to put your head above the parapet but it's appreciated.
Thank you:)
OP posts:
senua · 07/01/2022 12:58

Why not start a new a thread to discuss 'Luiza's toxic masculinity and what forms I imagine it took because I was actually there'
A word to the wise. If you want to be a campaigner - have people follow you and your ideas - then it might be an idea to be a bit less snippy. The public like empathetic, not abrupt.
Be the change you want to see.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 07/01/2022 12:58

I refer to you my response to Tinsel please start a new thread I will be happy to engage and contribute in detail.

To be fair to you you have at least allowed me to explain what happened not as in the case simply extrapolate the experiences of transwidows.

This is of course off topic and I do not want MNHQ to delete the valuable ideas that have been put forward by those on topic. So I will not be responding to questions like yours on this thread but will be happy to reply on a dedicated thread you create on luiza's toxic masculinity

Thanks @simmonslulu I've done exactly what you requested and asked the question in a new thread, it's there now for you in the 30 days only section.

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/thirtydayss_only/4447107-as-requested

Looking forward to your response.

OhHolyJesus · 07/01/2022 12:58

I think it's very on topic as you asked OP, what you could do against the TRA avalanche. Now I don't think you are the close to being the right person, far, far from it in fact, but you could speak up against the abuse of trans widows...but it's best you leave that to the women who have experienced of that to speak with their own voices. Like women and the female experience. Perhaps you could put your ex wife in contact with the website so we could hear about the abuse she suffered in your marriage directly from her?

You could stop using the word 'woman' in your self-assumed and imagined place in society and refer to yourself as a man, though I can't see that happening either.

You could go to Trans groups and ask them what they are doing, perhaps feed them some of the suggestions here, get a movement going, instead of asking women to do the intellectual Labour of coming up with ideas for you to do. There are people like yourself who recognise biological sex, you could look them up and ask them for advice or ask them what action they take. Maybe even ask if what they are doing is working?

I noticed neither of your claimed hashtags exist, perhaps you have a closed Twitter profile. If so, I'd undo that so your alleged tweets can be found and retweeted.

I'd ask if you have ever used a ladies toilet or public space "as a proud transwoman" but I think I already know the answer to that. As with Debbie Hayton, I can only think about Stephanie Hayton when I see or hear Debbie. I hope your ex wife is ok, I very much doubt she is 'fine'.

RestingStitchFace · 07/01/2022 13:03

Not sure what advice to give - because you moment you put your head above the parapet you'll be shot down in flames. But just wanted to say that, as a mother, I'm so so grateful to have you on our side . I really worry about the welfare and safety of vulnerable kids.

simmonslulu · 07/01/2022 13:06

Thank you:)

OP posts:
simmonslulu · 07/01/2022 13:07

@senua

Why not start a new a thread to discuss 'Luiza's toxic masculinity and what forms I imagine it took because I was actually there' A word to the wise. If you want to be a campaigner - have people follow you and your ideas - then it might be an idea to be a bit less snippy. The public like empathetic, not abrupt. Be the change you want to see.
Good advice thank you
OP posts:
titchy · 07/01/2022 13:22

I am sympathetic to you Tinsel but I do wonder whether you role as self appointed 'gatekeeper' of all feminist threads really fits into the MN ethos

Hmm You really think you're the right person to comment on MN's ethos? Sounds a bit mansplainy to me....

simmonslulu · 07/01/2022 13:24

@titchy

I am sympathetic to you Tinsel but I do wonder whether you role as self appointed 'gatekeeper' of all feminist threads really fits into the MN ethos

Hmm You really think you're the right person to comment on MN's ethos? Sounds a bit mansplainy to me....

Is MN open to all?
OP posts:
Furries · 07/01/2022 13:30

“Raise the hackles” - blimey.

TBH, your original thread was very much “me, me, me”. And a lot of it was questioning what it would take for trans women to be granted access to female spaces. Your comments regarding your wife were fairly throwaway.

On this thread, I’m finding it fairly difficult to get any reading at all of what you want to achieve. Your answers are fairly short, you’re not really giving much away, yet you are coming across (to me, I can’t speak for everyone) as quite aggressive.

The worst point for me is that a woman has said that you are making them feel uncomfortable. And your response to that is to be sneering, sarcastic and dismissive. That speaks volumes.

I’d suggest trying to show a bit more respect, be clearer with your answers, and actually engage and discuss serious issues. I’d be happy to see them, but haven’t seen anything of substance yet.

It’s interesting to note the lack of engagement from others on this thread. Women here aren’t stupid.

titchy · 07/01/2022 13:30

Of course open to all. But certainly not up to new posters to comment on whether, or what or which threads, established users post.

Suggest you lurk for a few months, read the 'break it down for me' threads, and then keep a much lower profile if your intentions are genuine.

I have a sneaky feeling you might find that rather difficult through...

ErrolTheDragon · 07/01/2022 13:32

Oh, I don't think Tinsel is self-appointed. Her role has been thrust upon her. And she's more of a reminder of certain realities than a 'gatekeeper'.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 07/01/2022 13:37

@Furries

“Raise the hackles” - blimey.

TBH, your original thread was very much “me, me, me”. And a lot of it was questioning what it would take for trans women to be granted access to female spaces. Your comments regarding your wife were fairly throwaway.

On this thread, I’m finding it fairly difficult to get any reading at all of what you want to achieve. Your answers are fairly short, you’re not really giving much away, yet you are coming across (to me, I can’t speak for everyone) as quite aggressive.

The worst point for me is that a woman has said that you are making them feel uncomfortable. And your response to that is to be sneering, sarcastic and dismissive. That speaks volumes.

I’d suggest trying to show a bit more respect, be clearer with your answers, and actually engage and discuss serious issues. I’d be happy to see them, but haven’t seen anything of substance yet.

It’s interesting to note the lack of engagement from others on this thread. Women here aren’t stupid.

I think this is a very fair assessment that OP would be well advised to genuinely take on board.
Abitofalark · 07/01/2022 13:42

Well that went off the rails quite quickly and turned aggressive.
Thank you, Tinsel.

Helleofabore · 07/01/2022 14:37

I think that there are quite a large number of posters who are wary of threads such as these. And rightly from experience.

They do tend to follow a pattern about just who they are centring and the tone used when women disagree.

simmonslulu · 08/01/2022 12:10

OP

This thread has run its natural course, 5 pages of ideas, suggestions, criticisms, non sequiturs and 'mansplaning' by me.

Amazingly MNHQ did not delete the thread, it did delete the post I made about how my transition evolved from the AGP as a young child.

Presumably such a brutal explanation would be too much for the TRA 'lurkers' who monitor MN on these topics.

If you want to know more about this please PM me, I will be happy to respond with the detail of my experience as a recovering AGP sufferer or answer any other questions you have.

I will not watch or react to any more posts on this thread so you know. PM me if you need to.

Good Luck!

OP posts:
simmonslulu · 08/01/2022 12:23

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/thirty_days_only/4447107-as-requested

OP posts:
TinselAngel · 08/01/2022 13:05

I'd strongly recommend women don't DM posters who want to tell you more about their AGP.

Megan1992xx · 09/01/2022 21:16

@TinselAngel

I'd strongly recommend women don't DM posters who want to tell you more about their AGP.
I have a lot of sympathy for you and your life experience and I have read the transwidows experiences Tinsel but the constant negativity of your posts can become both predictable and repetitive.

Would you ever in any circumstances give someone in the OP's position the benefit of the doubt?

Somehow I doubt it.

If so why are you (as I think the OP already pointed out to you) continuing to engage on this thread? Why?

TinselAngel · 09/01/2022 21:51

If so why are you (as I think the OP already pointed out to you) continuing to engage on this thread? Why?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness_raising

Datun · 09/01/2022 22:04

[quote TinselAngel] If so why are you (as I think the OP already pointed out to you) continuing to engage on this thread? Why?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness_raising[/quote]
Exactly. It's a public service.

The narrative of transwidows bears almost zero similarity to that of their partners with AGP.

TinselAngel · 09/01/2022 22:07

As you always say, Datun, "think of the lurkers"Smile

ChimamandaFangirl · 10/01/2022 01:45

I think Tinsel is taking a very thoughtful, careful and compassionate line towards women affected by these topics, which is what I'd expect on a feminist message board. So yes, predictable and very welcome.

Theflamingnerd · 10/01/2022 09:24

I think given that OP has admitted to making their former partner suffer and to having AGP on other threads, @TinselAngel is providing a much needed counter viewpoint to some of the claims offered.

I lurked on some of the other threads by OP and saw how dismissive they were about how they treated their partner, and to the women of this board in general.

Whilst I'm sure OP has struggled throughout life, it's important that on a FEMINIST board that the female perspective in all of this considered. There is absolutely no requirement for females to centre the male experience (in life, or on a feminist board). Quite frankly OP, it's not up to females to solve your male centered problems. We are not human shields, or assistants to dump the mental load on to. You need to be speaking to males about what they should be doing to "widen the bandwidth of what it means to be male" and accept you into the sex based spaces you rightly belong. It is not up to women to solve these problems for you.

EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn · 10/01/2022 10:08

I think that when a transwoman comes on & says they’re on our side, it’s all too easy to get excited, give them the benefit of the doubt, even fawn over them a bit. And there’s nothing to stop them posting here. But ultimately FWR isn’t here to support men - however they identify. And Tinsel provides an important reminder of that.