To not understand the issue with surrogacy?

[Blackbird1234]

I've seen a few posts on some threads in this topic, from people condemning surrogacy. I don't understand why it is seen as bad, if all parties consent. Can anyone explain, please?

I think there is a lot of hypocrisy on these topics.

Taking the adults out of the equation for a minute, some believe the child would be born in to a situation they wouldn’t chose and it’s morally wrong.

My question to those that feel sorry for the baby -

What about the women who bring children in to the world when the father has specified he doesn’t want to be involved? Is that not immoral? Bringing a child in to the word whereby they won’t have a relationship with their biological father?

What about those that bring children in to severe poverty, over crammed damp housing?

The point being, if it’s all about the best interests of the child, then half of the people on here will have brought a baby in to the world under less than ideal circumstances.

Back to the adults- some people think you shouldn’t use intervention at all, whether that be for IVF or surrogacy.

But how many of those are happy to use medical interventions when it suits them? If everything should only be ‘natural’ then what about those that requested c-sections, epidurals and so on?

How do they view covid? Do they expect medical intervention to help keep their vulnerable loved ones alive for a bit longer? I bet they view that kind of medical intervention as vital though….

How dare anyone decide an infertile couple shouldn’t be allowed intervention.

Lastly, regarding surrogacy, the concept that a woman is always coerced is laughable. You could say that about any scenario. Some will do it for the money and done be sad they feel they want to do something for someone else.

and some will do it because it makes them happy to do something to help another couple

How dare anyone decide an infertile couple shouldn’t be allowed intervention.

I think as a society we do have a right to decide what should be allowed when the potential for harm is so great.

@PurpleDaisies

How dare anyone decide an infertile couple shouldn’t be allowed intervention.

I think as a society we do have a right to decide what should be allowed when the potential for harm is so great.

But you don’t get to decide because it’s not your choice

Selling children is not right

That’s what surrogacy is

Selling small human beings who can’t say. We don’t want to be sold

@littlbrowndog

Selling children is not right

That’s what surrogacy is

Selling small human beings who can’t say. We don’t want to be sold

What if no money exchanges hands and a woman wants to do it?

adopted children. Will always want to know our roots and why

Being sold as a baby. They will still want to know their roots

What about the women who bring children in to the world when the father has specified he doesn’t want to be involved? Is that not immoral?

Yes. On the part of the father.

"What about the women who bring children in to the world when the father has specified he doesn’t want to be involved? Is that not immoral? Bringing a child in to the word whereby they won’t have a relationship with their biological father?

What about those that bring children in to severe poverty, over crammed damp housing?

The point being, if it’s all about the best interests of the child, then half of the people on here will have brought a baby in to the world under less than ideal circumstances."

So because some people have children and don't look after them properly it's ok to conceive a child and then traumatise it by taking it away from its biological mother??

And you think 50% of the people on this thread have had babies under these circumstances?

Logic is not your strong point is it?

It’s about the baby starcup

It’s hard being adopted but being bought must be harder

@NotBadConsidering

What about the women who bring children in to the world when the father has specified he doesn’t want to be involved? Is that not immoral?

Yes. On the part of the father.

If he’s made it clear from the outset though then it could be argued it’s on the mother for going ahead regardless of the outcome

How does surrogacy benefit the new born baby who is created with the express purpose of removing it from its mother shortly after birth?

It doesn't.

So it's a no from me.

Having children isn't a human right.

But you don’t get to decide because it’s not your choice

Commercial surrogacy is illegal in the UK. So I'd say it's definitely not a choice.

@Starcup

I think there is a lot of hypocrisy on these topics.

Taking the adults out of the equation for a minute, some believe the child would be born in to a situation they wouldn’t chose and it’s morally wrong.

My question to those that feel sorry for the baby -

What about the women who bring children in to the world when the father has specified he doesn’t want to be involved? Is that not immoral? Bringing a child in to the word whereby they won’t have a relationship with their biological father?

What about those that bring children in to severe poverty, over crammed damp housing?

The point being, if it’s all about the best interests of the child, then half of the people on here will have brought a baby in to the world under less than ideal circumstances.

Back to the adults- some people think you shouldn’t use intervention at all, whether that be for IVF or surrogacy.

But how many of those are happy to use medical interventions when it suits them? If everything should only be ‘natural’ then what about those that requested c-sections, epidurals and so on?

How do they view covid? Do they expect medical intervention to help keep their vulnerable loved ones alive for a bit longer? I bet they view that kind of medical intervention as vital though….

How dare anyone decide an infertile couple shouldn’t be allowed intervention.

Lastly, regarding surrogacy, the concept that a woman is always coerced is laughable. You could say that about any scenario. Some will do it for the money and done be sad they feel they want to do something for someone else.

Do you mean women who deliberately trick a man into making them pregnant, and possibly dont ever tell the father that the baby even exists? Because yes, that is absolutely immoral. Or do you mean women carrying on with an existing pregnancy even though the father doesn't want anything to do with the baby? Because that's an entirely different scenario.

Either way, "we can't stop some kids from having a shitty start in life, so why does it matter if we actively condone some other kids having a similarly shitty start in life" is clutching at straws as far as arguments go.

What if no money exchanges hands and a woman wants to do it?

Because even IF you could be 100% certain that it is done for genuinely altruistic reasons and the mother is in no way coerced, there exists no legal framework within which all three parties can have their rights protected. Someone has to lose rights. And no framework exists that can deal with all the myriad of possible outcomes of things that could go wrong with a pregnancy and a delivery. Again, someone will always lose out.

And losing out has serious consequences in this situation. It’s losing out with grief, trauma, loss, death, disability.

And what about the use of donor eggs when a woman can’t produce her own? Is that inappropriate?

Or when a woman get to 40 and uses a sperm donor? Is that morally questionable?

@Starcup

And what about the use of donor eggs when a woman can’t produce her own? Is that inappropriate?

Or when a woman get to 40 and uses a sperm donor? Is that morally questionable?

We're talking about deliberately gestating a baby to sell. Nothing else.

Whataboutery.

@littlbrowndog

adopted children. Will always want to know our roots and why

Being sold as a baby. They will still want to know their roots

But if no money exchanged hands then they aren’t bought are they?

What about the women who bring children in to the world when the father has specified he doesn’t want to be involved? Is that not immoral? Bringing a child in to the word whereby they won’t have a relationship with their biological father?

What are you saying here? That a woman should abort a child if the father doesn’t want that child?

That a single mother is a poor parent? That a mother is immoral to have their child if the father doesn’t want it?

I mean, I don’t see the relevance here at all.

The relationship with the infant is primarily established with the mother. Yes. The father’s voice is also recognised I am sure, but it is the mother who carried that child.

Otherwise, what is the relevance here?

Long as the child knows

It’s hard as an adopted child when you get to about ten and the burning inside to know who you are. Where you came from why you are here

I know a child has a right to info on a sperm donor. Don’t know about egg donors

The point being, if it’s all about the best interests of the child, then half of the people on here will have brought a baby in to the world under less than ideal circumstances.

WTAF?

@RepentMotherfucker

"What about the women who bring children in to the world when the father has specified he doesn’t want to be involved? Is that not immoral? Bringing a child in to the word whereby they won’t have a relationship with their biological father?

What about those that bring children in to severe poverty, over crammed damp housing?

The point being, if it’s all about the best interests of the child, then half of the people on here will have brought a baby in to the world under less than ideal circumstances."

So because some people have children and don't look after them properly it's ok to conceive a child and then traumatise it by taking it away from its biological mother??

And you think 50% of the people on this thread have had babies under these circumstances?

Logic is not your strong point is it?

I think many women have brought babies in to the world in shit circumstances and they know it and get touchy when it’s brought up.

You can’t have it both ways. Many people want a baby and that’s it, fuck the circumstances surrounding it if I want one I’ll have mentally and bring the child in to crap set of circumstances

@littlbrowndog

Long as the child knows

It’s hard as an adopted child when you get to about ten and the burning inside to know who you are. Where you came from why you are here

I know a child has a right to info on a sperm donor. Don’t know about egg donors

@littlbrowndog I have always loved your voice here and didn't know you were adopted.

I am an adopter and I completely get what you are saying. I see it all the time with my baby, how it has affected her, how she struggles with that loss that I can't fully comprehend or make up for.

I'm pretty pissed off on your behalf and that of my DD at some of the ignorance around that trauma on this and other surrogacy threads.

for you.

But you don’t get to decide because it’s not your choice
I didn’t mean me personally. I meant ethos committees, law makers etc.