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Original poster

To not understand the issue with surrogacy?

987 replies

Blackbird1234 · 30/12/2021 18:29

I've seen a few posts on some threads in this topic, from people condemning surrogacy. I don't understand why it is seen as bad, if all parties consent. Can anyone explain, please?

OP posts:
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13
RepentMotherfucker · 30/12/2021 20:52

@Blackbird1234

I'm saying a scale as there seems to be one on this thread, with some saying its absolutely awful in all circumstances and others saying it's ok in some circumstances. Not talking about in reality, just in reference to this thread.

@NynaeveSedai Do we know for a fact that the woman they are having the baby from is vulnerable?

I'll admit there's a couple of idiots who clearly haven't RTFT. Or hate babies.

Still can't see a scale.

ontana · 30/12/2021 20:52

There is no scale. It's immoral.

Tom Daley's husband calls women terfs for saying transwomen aren't women. Maybe he should have asked a transwoman to gestate his kid for him then.

Original poster
Blackbird1234 · 30/12/2021 20:52

@Dozer That's strange, why would they ask a woman who needs fertility treatment? Or do you always need it when being a surrogate?

OP posts:
EishetChayil · 30/12/2021 20:52

@Blackbird1234

Would a baby really notice that its new mother is not the one it was grown in? I don't have children, so genuinely don't know.
Absolutely. My daughter was minutes old, being washed and weighed after our c-section. I spoke her name and she turned her head to my voice. Newborns know their mother. Their mother is all they know.
IrishMama2015 · 30/12/2021 20:54

@Blackbird1234

Not sure how this fits in but a main issue seems to be the fact of people "buying" children. Does that mean that you also see fault with adoption? Or no, simply because money isn't necessarily exchanged?
Money is exchanged for adoption just under the guise of fees etc. Adoptees are more and more speaking out saying adoption was traumatic and often fails at one point or another. People have a right to their biological information and if at all possible their biological parents
ontana · 30/12/2021 20:54

@Dozer That's strange, why would they ask a woman who needs fertility treatment? Or do you always need it when being a surrogate?

Are you for real OP??

Yarnivore · 30/12/2021 20:57

[quote Blackbird1234]@Dozer That's strange, why would they ask a woman who needs fertility treatment? Or do you always need it when being a surrogate?[/quote]
How else do they get the embryo in?

EarthSight · 30/12/2021 21:01

@ontana

There is no scale. It's immoral.

Tom Daley's husband calls women terfs for saying transwomen aren't women. Maybe he should have asked a transwoman to gestate his kid for him then.

Indeed.

I don't think any of us are surprised when men suddenly know exactly what a woman is when it comes to getting what they want.

Runningupthecurtains · 30/12/2021 21:02

If a dear friend/beloved sister volunteers to carry a baby for her sister because she has completed her family and has had easy pregnancies/births so thinks it's a lovely thing to do and all go well it is one thing but what if the baby has a birth defect/disability and the intended parents decide they don't want it? Who do you think should raise the child? Or the surrogate who absolutely thought her family was completed and that she didn't want another child feels a strong bond to the baby and doesn't want to hand it over? Who do you think should raise the child? If the surrogate dies or is disabled as a result of the birth/ pregnancy what will happen to her children? We have to make rules based on all possible outcomes not just the best possible outcome.

ontana · 30/12/2021 21:03

Yes LOJ said something similar about surrogacy didn't he?

RepentMotherfucker · 30/12/2021 21:04

Money is exchanged for adoption just under the guise of fees etc.

Not in the UK. The US yes absolutely but US adoption basically operates as a free for all surrogacy market afaik.

FannyCann · 30/12/2021 21:05

So how about if it was a rich couple using another rich woman as a surrogate - would that be viewed in a better way?

Did any if Kim Kardashian's sisters offer to that most sisterly of generous acts if love? Any if them offer to carry those surrogate babies for her? I must have missed it. Hmm

RepentMotherfucker · 30/12/2021 21:05

[quote ontana]**@Dozer That's strange, why would they ask a woman who needs fertility treatment? Or do you always need it when being a surrogate?

Are you for real OP?? [/quote]
It's looking increasingly unlikely TBF...

Linguini · 30/12/2021 21:07

@Blackbird1234

So how about if it was a rich couple using another rich woman as a surrogate - would that be viewed in a better way?

Unethical or not, surely with something like this as long as there is full consent from all parties it should be fine?

Both genuine questions, not snippy replies.

A man pays an already wealthy woman for sex because she fully consented and was right up for the transaction. A-OK (?).

Look at the actual prostitution industry.

Women's bodies are not commodities. Babies are not commodities.

ontana · 30/12/2021 21:16

OP if your question about fertility treatment was genuine then you are clearly astonishingly naive about the process and what is involved, and how invasive, physically and emotionally, it is for women to go through any pregnancy but especially a high risk pregnancy and then to hand the baby over at the end of it, something that we don't do to a dog.

NynaeveSedai · 30/12/2021 21:19

It doesn't matter if that specific woman is vulnerable. The system of surrogacy in the states exploits vulnerable women and therefore anyone who participates in it is contributing to exploitation.
You don't have much class analysis. Ethics is rarely about the individual example.

Runningupthecurtains · 30/12/2021 21:25

[quote Blackbird1234]@Dozer That's strange, why would they ask a woman who needs fertility treatment? Or do you always need it when being a surrogate?[/quote]
Because having a surrogate who is not the biological mother is often used as a way to strengthen the claim over the baby of the biological/intended parent so should there be any attempt by the mother to back out of the surrogacy arrangement they can claim that their biological link (either the sperm or the egg or both) 'trump' the rights of the mother who has carried and birthed the baby.

MiladyBerserko · 30/12/2021 21:26

OP
You know the issues.
Read the dog board - especially the puppy farms threads on here, and then wonder WTF it's ok for human babies.

lochmaree · 30/12/2021 21:32

I used to think surrogacy was fine and a nice thing to do before I had my DS. then I realised how vulnerable newborns are and how much they need their mother and are connected to each other. and also seen on here other people saying we don't take puppies, kittens etc from their mums before 8 weeks and so how come it's OK for human babies? and I changed my mind.

I am aware that I am in a privileged position to have my DS, and that surrogacy is often used when couples can't have their own baby. however I don't think it's a right to have a biological child. especially if what is a want of the parents is being placed about the rights of the child.

Original poster
Blackbird1234 · 30/12/2021 21:55

Hang on, I'm fully for real and I don't see why that's being questioned. I knew nothing about surrogacy, hence me asking the question here, so why on earth is it surprising that I know nothing about it? I've said from the beginning that I came here for it to be explained and thankfully the majority of posters are explaining it all to me without questioning whether I'm "for real" or not, so thank you to those ones, I've found all of this massively interesting.

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Original poster
Blackbird1234 · 30/12/2021 21:58

@ontana I am incredibly naive about it all, that's the entire reason that I am here and asking questions, so that I'm no longer naive. We all have to start somewhere surely? I'm in my twenties and surrogacy has never come up in my life so far, I saw a few posts about it, didnt understand so decided to "educate myself" like so many MN posters tell naive people to do. So here I am. Doing it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that and i am sure I will go to bed tonight a lot less naive thanks to a majority of informative posts on this thread.

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Original poster
Blackbird1234 · 30/12/2021 22:00

@Runningupthecurtains Thanks for the explanation :)

OP posts:
Flowers500 · 30/12/2021 22:11

It's definitely complex and difficult but I don't understand a lot of the outright vitriol on here.

In some North African cultures it's customary for siblings to have a baby for their childless sibling. If you read 18th century history that's also not anything unusual either. Many countries have high rates of children being born with different actual fathers to those on the birth cert. This whole site is full of people whose children have unless parent(s) that they won't be around long term, if they're lucky.

The issue for me is when it comes to potential exploitation of women in poor situations, but I have no problem with the basic concept. Also I think there is a decent bit of homophobia on here that opposes gay men even adopting.

lochmaree · 30/12/2021 22:13

@Blackbird1234

I get it, I didnt realise anything was really wrong with surrogacy until quite recently! I just hadn't ever really thought about it and also didn't really realise what a newborn was like, I always thought along the lines of well if the baby is well loved etc, then what is the harm. I see differently now, but I understand why someone might not know much about it at all or about the questionable ethics.

also love your username Grin

UltraVividLament · 30/12/2021 22:15

"Also I think there is a decent bit of homophobia on here that opposes gay men even adopting."

Here, on this thread?? Really?