To not understand the issue with surrogacy?

[Blackbird1234]

I've seen a few posts on some threads in this topic, from people condemning surrogacy. I don't understand why it is seen as bad, if all parties consent. Can anyone explain, please?

Hey wims! Know your place. Know when to shut the fuck up! And earn respect.

Um yeah… that works well doesn’t it?

I'm increasingly thinking our prolific poster must be really quite drunk

@Starcup

I feel bemused at the assumptions being made about adopted/surro kids. I don’t feel like I’ve suffered. I have parents that love me. I love them. I’m not sure at what point I’ve suffered.

A scapegoat? For what?

No. But you just told me ‘ I think your opinions are your opinions and the world is changing and you’re shitting yourself… is what I think

And that my posts deserved no respect. So I assumed that you disagreed on these now.

Like sneakily telling me that the USA (I assume anyway) allowed surrogacy and it should be followed, which you then retracted.

I am now checking what you mean because it all seems very fluid depending on just who you are replying to.

There have been two schools of thought on this thread about women choosing to be a surrogate:

1. let her choose, who cares about the consequences
2. let her choose, but show us a way to make sure protections are in place should that choice be rescinded, regretted, altered, or impacted by decisions beyond that choice.

The first is a libertarian, almost anarchic approach. Which is fine, if that’s what you’re into, but it needs to be acknowledged that this will harm the women physically and mentally you are purporting to support.

The second approach is, in my view, an insoluble question. Someone gives up rights somewhere. So as a result, a ban is the only answer, as agreed by France, Sweden, Germany, Italy etc. In countries where surrogacy has happened, there are examples of all the concerns possible: harm to the surrogate, the intended parents, the baby. There are no examples of these things in countries where surrogacy is banned. I would be interested to read opinions of women in those countries who want to be surrogates but can’t because their choice has been removed and listen to their arguments. I can’t find any examples.

Until coherent arguments can be put forward around this libertarian approach, I can’t see how surrogacy laws can be altered.

The references Bunnyfuller is that there is a growing body of evidence from children (many now adults) who have been adopted and donor assisted of some mental health issues arising from removal from their mothers at birth.

If you have no issues, then that is great news.

**Be respectful
grin grin langcleg

Errrrrrrrrrrr weren’t you BANNED for your OTT views…….

Extinction rebellion affects everyone to various degrees, but surrogacy doesn’t at all, so if you honestly think people will listen to 11/12 nutters on MN then you’re more than deluded

Please do keep going.

Ot are you trying to emulate someone that shared extreme views? eek

Either way, weird…….

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

I'm increasingly thinking our prolific poster must be really quite drunk

*You or friend are banned*m

So your opinion needs to be take with a pinch of salt for being way way OTT

dearie, dearie me

Isn’t it weird? Lang Cleg was a safeguarding expert. Extreme views?

So safeguarding falls under extreme views. That seems about right. You have continued to call the posters keen on discussing safeguarding measures ‘extremist’.

I actually think this thread is getting weirder.

Which takes some fucking doing frankly.

it might make me actually stir my bones and go to bed though

@RepentMotherfucker

I actually think this thread is getting weirder.

Which takes some fucking doing frankly.

Seems to happen this time each night repent!!!

And there’s lots of us who don’t! My brother is also adopted, separate adoption, and no issues.
Surely a baby being loved and cared for is the important bit?

My birth mother couldn’t keep me. I imagine that was a difficult decision, but ultimately my welfare was top of the agenda. I am 100% sure as an adopted child I had a more loving upbringing that many of the accidental pregnancies with ongoing chaotic lives. I didn’t go to a wealthy family, Dad was a plumber, mum was a florist, until me and my brother. We had a normal (ups and downs!) family life but my not growing in my mum’s womb has not affected me.

There are a lot of situations these days where those not actually in those situations decide it is exploitation. With respect, it isn’t always that. People live their lives in all sorts of ways - many horrify me but they work for them - and I would be arrogant to assume they didn’t know that actually they felt bad. It’s like disbelieving someone with depression, or anxiety - you cannot surmise another’s’ mindset or motivation.

Worldwide there’s some dreadful things with surrogacy. But bloody hell, worldwide there’s a whole bunch of shit. Babies shouldn’t be a trophy for the rich but there’s definitely a place for regulated surrogacy.

[quote Bunnyfuller]@Starcup

I feel bemused at the assumptions being made about adopted/surro kids. I don’t feel like I’ve suffered. I have parents that love me. I love them. I’m not sure at what point I’ve suffered.[/quote]
I think you’re mistaken.

You should aim that question at the many others that think spearing the child from mother always has negative consequences….. many many people believe that….

@Bunnyfuller

And there’s lots of us who don’t! My brother is also adopted, separate adoption, and no issues. Surely a baby being loved and cared for is the important bit?

My birth mother couldn’t keep me. I imagine that was a difficult decision, but ultimately my welfare was top of the agenda. I am 100% sure as an adopted child I had a more loving upbringing that many of the accidental pregnancies with ongoing chaotic lives. I didn’t go to a wealthy family, Dad was a plumber, mum was a florist, until me and my brother. We had a normal (ups and downs!) family life but my not growing in my mum’s womb has not affected me.

There are a lot of situations these days where those not actually in those situations decide it is exploitation. With respect, it isn’t always that. People live their lives in all sorts of ways - many horrify me but they work for them - and I would be arrogant to assume they didn’t know that actually they felt bad. It’s like disbelieving someone with depression, or anxiety - you cannot surmise another’s’ mindset or motivation.

Worldwide there’s some dreadful things with surrogacy. But bloody hell, worldwide there’s a whole bunch of shit. Babies shouldn’t be a trophy for the rich but there’s definitely a place for regulated surrogacy.

But you are conflating adoption and surrogacy - perhaps understandably given your personal perspective - and they are very different things.

@Helleofabore

So… you are now in favour of commercial surrogacy, and in favour of any clinic targeting vulnerable women.

Or are you simply continuing to denigrate posters as you have done for days because they have disagreed with you. And you have sought to shame the posters who disagree with you.

Plus continue to go around in circles.

And you are here talking about respect…

Haha what the fuck

Are you making shight up to suit your agenda? 😂

What am I making up?

Are you or are you not denigrating posters on this thread? Including me?

I can post a summary of the past few pages if you like.

So what is it that I am making up?

@OhHolyJesus

Carry on, banging on about YOUR opinions. It’s comical.

I intend to, as should you, but do it with respect Star. You would want to give us all a good example wouldn't you?

A bit less sarcasm, a few more answers to questions. Did you scroll back to see the ones you missed? No?

Please stay, you’re the type of ‘feminist’ on the news that is in the middle in the M25 to stop and make people think

No I think that's possibly Extinction Rebellion or Insulate Britain you're thinking off. Excellent way to tell us what you know about feminism though. Truly enlightening.

I intend to. I don’t work much as I live off my husbands salary so I have a lot of time on my hands 🤔😛

@Helleofabore

A scapegoat? For what?

No. But you just told me ‘ I think your opinions are your opinions and the world is changing and you’re shitting yourself… is what I think

And that my posts deserved no respect. So I assumed that you disagreed on these now.

Like sneakily telling me that the USA (I assume anyway) allowed surrogacy and it should be followed, which you then retracted.

I am now checking what you mean because it all seems very fluid depending on just who you are replying to.

Why did you assume it was fluid? Unnerve said that?

I never

@Starcup

Are you saying I am mistaken in how I feel? As in I am suffering, I just don’t know it?!

I’m aware lots of people think the process of removing a baby from the birth mum is damaging. If you look into early history this was often the case and babies were raised by the tribe generally, often not even breast fed by their bio mum. I think sometimes we look for issues as a rule rather than the exception.

There are a million reasons a child may not be raised by bio parents, and it isn’t a negative thing by default. The one thing that actually pisses me off about being adopted, is those outside it assuming it is somehow ‘less’.