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Original poster

To not understand the issue with surrogacy?

987 replies

Blackbird1234 · 30/12/2021 18:29

I've seen a few posts on some threads in this topic, from people condemning surrogacy. I don't understand why it is seen as bad, if all parties consent. Can anyone explain, please?

OP posts:
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13
Starcup · 03/01/2022 00:18

@Helleofabore

The references Bunnyfuller is that there is a growing body of evidence from children (many now adults) who have been adopted and donor assisted of some mental health issues arising from removal from their mothers at birth.

If you have no issues, then that is great news.

So - are youbsayiinhbits water to keep children with their birth mothers, even though it’s been established that they can’t keep the safe etc….

Are you mad?….

Helleofabore · 03/01/2022 00:19

Ok.

Were you or weren’t you referring to the USA in this post?

Not all countries…… the most powerful country in the world accepted it.



They have 330 million plus people compared to 66 million….

Doesn’t see to that many opposing views…

RepentMotherfucker · 03/01/2022 00:21

I love a strawman.

Starcup · 03/01/2022 00:21

Are you the type of person that makes excuses for the birth mother/father? That’s mental!! Tjoiygh I don’t believe you view the father the same way…..Hmm

Helleofabore · 03/01/2022 00:22

So - are youbsayiinhbits water to keep children with their birth mothers, even though it’s been established that they can’t keep the safe etc….

Are you mad?…

Mad? Me?

Helleofabore · 03/01/2022 00:23

@Starcup

Are you the type of person that makes excuses for the birth mother/father? That’s mental!! Tjoiygh I don’t believe you view the father the same way…..Hmm
Who is this aimed at?

And yet another insult… I think we are getting one in every post at the moment?

ldontWanna · 03/01/2022 00:23

@Helleofabore

The references Bunnyfuller is that there is a growing body of evidence from children (many now adults) who have been adopted and donor assisted of some mental health issues arising from removal from their mothers at birth.

If you have no issues, then that is great news.

I've got issues! I think I made that fairly obvious in my first post on this thread.Grin Do I get a cookie?
Starcup · 03/01/2022 00:27

[quote Bunnyfuller]@Starcup

Are you saying I am mistaken in how I feel? As in I am suffering, I just don’t know it?!

I’m aware lots of people think the process of removing a baby from the birth mum is damaging. If you look into early history this was often the case and babies were raised by the tribe generally, often not even breast fed by their bio mum. I think sometimes we look for issues as a rule rather than the exception.

There are a million reasons a child may not be raised by bio parents, and it isn’t a negative thing by default. The one thing that actually pisses me off about being adopted, is those outside it assuming it is somehow ‘less’.[/quote]
For real?

Have you read this thread?

Helleofabore · 03/01/2022 00:29

Bunnyfuller

To be fair, there have been some posts about adoption. But it has not been generally viewed as a negative. It has been discussed about the child’s feelings as they have gotten older and their feelings about not having their birth mother’s details, or any contact to ask questions.

If there were people who felt negatively about adoption, I guess they will reply to you.

I am very glad to hear that you and your brother have a such a wonderful family.

Starcup · 03/01/2022 00:29

@Helleofabore

The references Bunnyfuller is that there is a growing body of evidence from children (many now adults) who have been adopted and donor assisted of some mental health issues arising from removal from their mothers at birth.

If you have no issues, then that is great news.

So what do you suggest??

Children’s homes? No adoptions at all…..?

ldontWanna · 03/01/2022 00:29

@Bunnyfuller being serious now. While there are links between adoption and surrogacy (for example some of the research applies to both, like telling children from early on results in better outcomes for the children and familial relationships) they are different. We haven't really discussed the ins and outs of adoption, except maybe tangentially to respond to whatabboutery.

That being said, there is plenty of research that adoption does affect the child in many ways for various reasons, not being told for example. A good life is only one factor in those outcomes, not a guarantee. Ofc there will be outliers in any research/statistics that is done correctly and that is ok. I'm genuinely happy for you.

Helleofabore · 03/01/2022 00:32

ldontWanna

Flowers or shall I find a lovely platypus gif for you?

(Did I post flowers for you at the start? I am having de ja vu a lot on this thread.)

Starcup · 03/01/2022 00:32

I simply can't take the irony...

Enjoy your trip about the threads on this board Star. Truly, your voice is a welcome addition. I look forward to hearing all your thoughts on feminism and where feminists have gone wrong all these years. I especially look forward to all your helpful suggestions on how things should be done from now on.

Sorry I can’t say the same as I think you’re full of sh*t

ForestLake · 03/01/2022 00:33

Are you saying I am mistaken in how I feel? As in I am suffering, I just don’t know it?!

Well, maybe you're just in denial, because the truth is too painful. Or you pushed that side of you what wanted you real mammy away, and lost touch with it. How are we supposed to know? Grin

Removing babies from their birth mother is always damaging. Surrogacy should be banned.

Helleofabore · 03/01/2022 00:34

So what do you suggest??

Children’s homes? No adoptions at all…..?

Are you confusing me with someone else?

Or just determined that I am in the wrong with everything I post?

ldontWanna · 03/01/2022 00:34

@Helleofabore

ldontWanna

Flowers or shall I find a lovely platypus gif for you?

(Did I post flowers for you at the start? I am having de ja vu a lot on this thread.)

I'm sure you did, and I think it was you I was replying to. It's hard to remember it all. Especially since it's so cyclical.
Starcup · 03/01/2022 00:35

@Helleofabore

Extinction rebellion affects everyone to various degrees, but surrogacy doesn’t at all, so if you honestly think people will listen to 11/12 nutters on MN then you’re more than deluded

Please do keep going.

I don’t need to. Nuttiness and extreme view will go on forever like this thread 🤣
Helleofabore · 03/01/2022 00:35

@Starcup

I simply can't take the irony...

Enjoy your trip about the threads on this board Star. Truly, your voice is a welcome addition. I look forward to hearing all your thoughts on feminism and where feminists have gone wrong all these years. I especially look forward to all your helpful suggestions on how things should be done from now on.

Sorry I can’t say the same as I think you’re full of sh*t

Who is this one aimed at?

Who is full of shit?

ldontWanna · 03/01/2022 00:35

Ironically I didn't want to post the whole sordid story, as I didn't want to derail from the actual thread which was about surrogacy.Grin

Helleofabore · 03/01/2022 00:37

I'm sure you did, and I think it was you I was replying to. It's hard to remember it all. Especially since it's so cyclical.

[Gringrin]Grin (for the cyclical reference - definitely not your other posts. Which I have appreciated reading greatly.

zweisamkeit · 03/01/2022 00:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Starcup · 03/01/2022 00:41

@Helleofabore

Isn’t it weird? Lang Cleg was a safeguarding expert. Extreme views?

So safeguarding falls under extreme views. That seems about right. You have continued to call the posters keen on discussing safeguarding measures ‘extremist’.

I mean extreme in the sense someone has been banned with THAr name.

Joke all you want @Helleofabore but that name has been banned and whilst someone has resurrected it, I wouldn’t keep jumping in the playground circle with it, because they are obviously perceived to have extreme views ( and were banned) carry on though hen…..

NotBadConsidering · 03/01/2022 00:43

[quote Bunnyfuller]@Starcup

Are you saying I am mistaken in how I feel? As in I am suffering, I just don’t know it?!

I’m aware lots of people think the process of removing a baby from the birth mum is damaging. If you look into early history this was often the case and babies were raised by the tribe generally, often not even breast fed by their bio mum. I think sometimes we look for issues as a rule rather than the exception.

There are a million reasons a child may not be raised by bio parents, and it isn’t a negative thing by default. The one thing that actually pisses me off about being adopted, is those outside it assuming it is somehow ‘less’.[/quote]
No one is saying that in all circumstances of surrogacy or adoption that the child will be unhappy or suffer. What has been said is that the potential for this to happen needs to be considered in the formulation of any legislative framework for surrogacy; the child has rights that need to be considered and protected, not glossed over because a woman has freely chosen to be a surrogate or the intended parents seem nice and well off. While there are bound to be children of surrogacy or adoption who are happy and will always be happy, there are those who aren’t or won’t be in the future. Legislation needs to consider these scenarios. If we fail to protect the vulnerable or consider very predictable possible outcomes I think that would be a failing.

In the cases of adoption when the newborn is removed from its mother if she is deemed unfit, usually a judge has to declare that the baby can actually be removed, because it’s considered such a monumental decision to do so. But in surrogacy, the baby is just…removed. That’s the kind of discrepancy that is being considered.

Starcup · 03/01/2022 00:45

To add - I’m a pain in the arse at times and I own it. I seldom come on the feminist boards as i know they get heated, christ everyone knows that but you’ll still get your ‘hardcore’ feminists ‘Lang et al’ who are that ridiculous they are banned

Starcup · 03/01/2022 00:46

So I wouldn’t align yourself too close…. Just saying 😉😉😉😉