Out, proud and now quite a bit nervous

[Boood]

Was just walked through the “privilege wheel” in a team meeting. Was forced to ask why there was no category for biological sex and explain that gender identity is not a suitable replacement.
And now I’m throwing JKR and Maya Forstater references around like they’re going out of fashion and thinking, oh fuck.
Please hand hold, share stories and advise how I keep it grown-up and employed without caving.

Well done and good luck! All the facts are on your side xxx

Well done and remember that if wanting non conformist kids NOT to be sterilised, and wanting women NOT to be raped by rapists in prison is 'whatever insult they throw at you' then hell yes that makes you 'whatever insult they throw at you'.

WTAF is a privilege wheel? Are there actions after this meeting?

Hope you're okay OP.

We'll done op!!

Well! Bloody autocorrect.

Well done OP

aaah good luck! I think you are on reasonably safe ground if you keep talking about pregnancy and maternity as they are the primary source of discrimination and disadvantage for women in the workplace. And you can talk about menopause. And the data gap on women's bodies and women's experiences if you have any convenient examples relevant to your field.

Just keep the focus of discussion on women's issues and avoid getting sidetracked into discussing transwomen.

Well done for speaking up.

Well done! Its terrible you had to point it out, why do they think it had to be made a protected characteristic!

Brilliant OP, hand hold and high five!

My tip is to keep it all factual and refer to Equality Act etc. With a bit of references to 'the damage caused by controversial lobby groups' thrown in.

Privilege wheel. Action is to think about our own privilege.

Presumably not including the right to get into a police officer’s car when arrested on flimsy/non-existent reasons without worrying about whether you’re going to end up buried in a forest.

Thanks everyone, great advice. And support much appreciated.
Unfortunately I already ducked my chance on the menopause. That was last week’s talk, and when the first sentence was “the most important thing to remember is that not only women experience menopause” my headset was mysteriously transported across the room.

I did, however, find out that one of my favourite colleagues is fully TERFed up, so it was worth it.

@Shedmistress

Well done and remember that if wanting non conformist kids NOT to be sterilised, and wanting women NOT to be raped by rapists in prison is 'whatever insult they throw at you' then hell yes that makes you 'whatever insult they throw at you'.

Perfect. Will jot down for future ref.

Well done OP. Facts are on your side.
I have just started pushing out on Facebook and am equally nervous even though the audience is supposed to be my friends. I know they don't all agree with me.

But it is time to take a stand if we can. The whole world has gone completely mad and I can't sit back and say nothing any more. I genuinely think most people have no idea about most of this so the more seeds to plant, the more references you mention, the more people will take what you're saying on board.

Great to hear your have a TERFed up colleague.

That wheel makes me feel very uneasy - putting people into boxes like that. Interestingly schools have been told not to teach white privilege as fact. Kemi Badenoch has spoken on this.

@Boood

Privilege wheel. Action is to think about our own privilege.

Presumably not including the right to get into a police officer’s car when arrested on flimsy/non-existent reasons without worrying about whether you’re going to end up buried in a forest.

Thanks OP I would make the point about Sarah Everard.

Is this online? So no one saw you throw your headset?

@DaisyNGO I’m wfh and very much of the camera off persuasion so nobody saw except my husband.

@Boood

Privilege wheel. Action is to think about our own privilege.

Presumably not including the right to get into a police officer’s car when arrested on flimsy/non-existent reasons without worrying about whether you’re going to end up buried in a forest.

Privilege wheel. Action is to think about our own privilege.

What oppression olympics nonsense. Sorry you have to put up with that, OP!

That wheel looks both interesting (because it covers many categories, e.g. language, housing), and really flawed, in that it assumes a very rigid hierarchy of privilege.

For instance, some white people suffer racism too (e.g. Travellers), some English speakers are discriminated against based on their accent (e.g. because they sound "Northern"), etc.
In some fields (e.g. tech), some degree of neurodivergence is actually valued.

The omission of sex is glaring, if only due to biological differences (see Invisible Women). Secondary sexual characteristics such as size or voice pitch would also be relevant. Shorter people with higher pitch voices are typically overlooked in many social situations.

It looks like somebody knocked that up in a PSHE class. It doesn't really take account for nuance when it comes to opportunities rather than privilege and it doesn't include class which is the biggest divide in this country.

@RobotValkyrie

That wheel looks both interesting (because it covers many categories, e.g. language, housing), and really flawed, in that it assumes a very rigid hierarchy of privilege.

For instance, some white people suffer racism too (e.g. Travellers), some English speakers are discriminated against based on their accent (e.g. because they sound "Northern"), etc.
In some fields (e.g. tech), some degree of neurodivergence is actually valued.

The omission of sex is glaring, if only due to biological differences (see Invisible Women). Secondary sexual characteristics such as size or voice pitch would also be relevant. Shorter people with higher pitch voices are typically overlooked in many social situations.

Exactly. I think it really helps our cause when we pull apart the wider accuracy/appropriateness of resources like this. It all starts to fall over then.

It's so frustrating that business leaders/HR departments etc are using such poor quality materials.

It also makes me think of the episode of Gender a Wider Lens when they were talking to a detransitioner about how she and a lot of her peers began to identify as non binary as they felt they had too much privilege as white middle class students.

You can't really slate old white men when you're either going to become one or end up married to one.

...why there was no category for biological sex and explain that gender identity is not a suitable replacement.

Well done OP. It is interesting though that under Gender, they do rank 'cis-gender men' as closer to the 'centre' than 'cis-gender women' showing some understanding of the biological advantages of men over child-bearing women.
I hope to never have to type the 'cis' word ever again btw.

If you wanted to go full pelt you could hit them with reasons why 'cis' is not a helpful word to band about the work place. A few threads on here would help with that.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3561017-explaining-why-cis-is-offensive

Recommend the book Invisible Women to everyone.

Well done, OP, and thanks for having the courage to speak up.

I agree you should be safest if you just keep the focus of discussion on women's issues and avoid getting sidetracked into discussing transwomen. You may need to keep pulling the focus back onto the boring and unfashionable topic of women, as the virtue-signallers will want to move to those we allegedly oppress by existing.

That Privilege Wheel accidentally reveals a very clear bias: slim is supposedly more powerful than large. Whereas the first thing I thought about Body Size is that large is powerful, small is vulnerable. The reason males in women’s single-sex spaces are so intimidating.