Out, proud and now quite a bit nervous

[Boood]

Was just walked through the “privilege wheel” in a team meeting. Was forced to ask why there was no category for biological sex and explain that gender identity is not a suitable replacement.
And now I’m throwing JKR and Maya Forstater references around like they’re going out of fashion and thinking, oh fuck.
Please hand hold, share stories and advise how I keep it grown-up and employed without caving.

@Whatsnewpussyhat

So the 'gender' segment moves privileged males from top dogs to being the most 'marginalised' just because they say they are women.

They couldn't put sex though could they as that would only need 2 parts not 3.

If 'sex' part of this wheel included people with DSD it could be easily added.

This is a different take, but why out sheltered/renting in the same privilege category for housing? Those are hugely different.

Also, I wonder if anyone ticking a few of the outer ends of the wheel come away feel underprivileged or if they’re also meant to “check” their privilege as well.

Finally, after one checks one’s privilege, then what? Any advice given on that? Or
Is one meant to simply add it as a mantra for every day life? How does acknowledging privilege change things for the less privileged? Or is it yet another way to tell people to shut the fuck up.

@CatherinaJTV

It looks like that wheel did its job and everyone is thinking about their privileges?

Yes, I am Seriously, how on earth are people having a problem with it (and I don't mean because of sex omissions) People eye rolling at the whole thing, even skin colour and WTAF at etc?! You're in serious denial if you think that being white, not trans, heterosexual etc does not have more privilege than others. I've not seen this wheel before and it's made me think.

Do you think a gay man is more privileged than a bisexual man, and if so how?

How would someone dealing with both men know? Unless they knew them pretty well?
Wouldn’t really be on their CV when going for jobs etc, and manager may not be aware when assessing for promotion.
Can’t really think of a situation where it would come into play, to be honest, unless considering dating pool :D

Very odd wheel.

I think it means not necessarily in a job seeking or dating pool way doubletweenqueen, more of an everyday homophobia type way just by simply '' being '' you.
In a way that being heterosexual wouldn't bring

@Boood Yes, but for a lot of gay and bi men, you wouldn't necessarily know that they were gay or bi, or even not heterosexual a lot if the time.
I have a few gay men friends who I didn't know were gay when I met them.
So I don't know how it could be a privilege if not an apparent characteristic? - particularly the difference between gay and bi.
Privilege or disadvantage by sex, skin colour, age, disability, name significant flying culture, outward signs of religion, money - I can compute that.
I can also understand where sexuality could be a priviledge, where difference can be discerned.

Although I'm interpreting privilege as advantage afforded through situations and conditions through life.

It might be an interesting exercise if it were a) produced for the UK and therefore included class, which is an enormous factor in our society in a eat that it isn't in Canada, and b) included biological sex.

White, working class boys have the worst educational outcomes of all groups. Massively, staggeringly so, every single year. By nature of their class they are overwhelmingly likely to also be cis-gender (very little patience with gender ideology in the working class school used to teach in) and if they are gay, they are most likely closeted at school age. So they are white, male, cis, heterosexuals - they should be rolling in privilege! And yet they are at the absolute bottom of the heap.

That's why it's rubbish. It requires us to ignore the actual world we live in.

Thank you for doing this OP.

“the most important thing to remember is that not only women experience menopause”

Fuck me, I just walked to my own office specifically to throw my own headset across the room!

When will this madness stop? Do these people actually hear themselves?

I think it means not necessarily in a job seeking or dating pool way doubletweenqueen, more of an everyday homophobia type way just by simply '' being '' you.
In a way that being heterosexual wouldn't bring

That wasn't the question, NotMe. The question I asked you, and DoubleTween was responding to was "Do you think a gay man is more privileged than a bisexual man, and if so how?"

Because that's what this wheel that you find so inspiring says.

Do you think gay men are privileged over the same men who also sleep with women. Or a man who mostly sleeps with women but slept with a man once, or a man who only sleeps with women but finds men attractive?

It's an unsubtle representation. Privilege is more complicated than this. It's also culturally inaccurate for the UK.
Fair enough to use this perhaps as a place to start a discussion about structural inequalities and what privilege might look like. If it was presented more like the colour wheel for autism, which reflects the individual more - and that not all situations afford the same degree of privilege, that would make more sense.
I think the development of the idea of axis of oppression have had unhelpful repercussions.

I suppose it might make you think about privilege if you had literally never thought about it at all and you weren't worried about accuracy, cultural and contextual relevance, and facts...

@SirSamuelVimes that’s such a good point. It’s exactly why imported education on “privilege” don’t translate particularly well here (I’m not sure how they go over in the USA and Canada. I’ve never lived there) but the UK is deeply classist before it is anything else.

Isn’t the US as well, though? Isn’t that the really obvious answer to how Obama could be President at the same time that Trayvon Martin was killed for walking down the road? Americans may spend less time obsessing over class markers, but the actual impact class has on society and on individuals is no less than in the UK.

Bloody well done, OP. You have guts!

I know it wasn't the question you asked, if you read my comment again properly I was responding to double, not you.

Double was responding to me, you completely swerved the whole point of what was being discussed. With the benefit of the doubt, I'll assume you didn't follow the discussion.

It wasn't about "gay v heterosexual" privilege it was quite clearly about "gay v bisexual".

Read things more carefully.

What part of I wasnt responding to your post but doubles do you not understand?

So again, given that you are such a fan of this "privilege wheel" do you agree with it that gay men have more privilege than bisexual men?

You decided to answer a completely different point to the one being made. But I don't know why I'm surprised.

What part of I wasnt responding to your post but doubles do you not understand?

Is that level of rudeness really necessary when responding to others on a public platform?

I wonder how some people think… “I realise that I haven’t got a clue about this and that I am backed into a corner so I am just going to be incredibly rude and unpleasant. Maybe they will get too distracted to notice that I don’t have an answer?” So weird .

I am torn between wondering

A) if the exclusion of class is pure stupidity in transposing this wheel to a completely different culture without any due diligence if it works? or

B) done completely on purpose by middle class hypocrites who are keen to appear oppressed?

Any thoughts anyone?

Yes, I think class should be on there too, it'd definitely be relevant here in the UK.
Bit of a big omission, but if class isn't like it is here in other countries, will maybe explain why it has been left off.
Would be good to have the wheel with class on there too.
I still think it's a good idea to have though to make people think about the privileges they do have (like white and straight for example) - nothing wrong with being aware of it, can make you more empathetic towards other people's struggles and that's a good thing, surely?
Doesn't mean that you're desperate to be oppressed

What is supposed to be the outcome of 'being aware of one's privilege'?

What are the actual practical effects it is supposed to have?

Are we to feel sorry for people with less privilege? Donate to charity? Do penance?

I mean, fine, yes, privilege is complex and nuanced and some people have it easier in various ways than others yet may struggle in other ways.

Fucking groundbreaking! This is amazing! Who knew?!