FB Groups and JK

[SusannaQueen]

Ok, I'm just having a rant and I know FB groups are free to set their own rules.
I've been following a fab FB group, (Home for Peculiar Artists 2), post goes up from admin saying this is a reminder, we don't allow anything Harry Potter or JKR related, if you don't know why then educate yourself. Lots of supportive replies.
I'm on the group in my real name, so I'm not going to weigh in, but it hugely fucks me off, so many people just believing lies with no dissent allowed. Just makes me think this whole thing is insurmountable.

[quote Theunamedcat]@Wavedancer99

It is inappropriate for any adult male or female to expose themselves to a child[/quote]
Good, so in other words, the sex of the individual isn't the issue, the act of exposing one's genitals is.

And we can therefore punish people for the act of exposing their genitals, instead of preemptively discriminating against people on the basis of their sex.

www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/10/its-intersex-awareness-day-here-are-5-myths-we-need-to-shatter/

See myth four

I believe many people do not like the outdated term 'intersex' and prefer the terms Differences in Sex Development (DSD) or Variations in Sex Characteristics (VSC) or Diverse Sex Development. Many have also repeatedly asked not to be co-opted into this debate.

And despite the variations in sex development, people with these conditions are still either male or female. I believe karotyping is used to determine which.

The invoking of 'intersex' is another argument we hear on here with tiresome regularity.

What a surprise. A TRA who can't answer the same basic questions that all the other TRAs can't answer.

bioessentialist definitions of gender ROFL - can you explain to me what you mean by this, @Wavedancer99?

How can gender be bioessentialist when it’s socially constructed?

You’re literally telling us we think the very opposite of the GC position, which kind of suggests you don’t really know what it is.

It’s TRAS who think gender is essentialist. No?

Good, so in other words, the sex of the individual isn't the issue, the act of exposing one's genitals is.

In the context of the Wi Spa incident, where there are separate male and female areas where everyone is naked with members of their own sex, there is a difference between naked women in the area for women and girls and a naked man with an erect penis being in the area for women and girls.

The naked man in that incident self-identified as a woman, but turned out to be a sexual predator with previous offences of sexual assault against women and girls.

"And despite the variations in sex development, people with these conditions are still either male or female. I believe karotyping is used to determine which."

And just like that, you immediately disregard and speak over the intersex people who are also trans or non-binary.

Almost like you're just cherrypicking the ones who happen to be useful to you.

Tell me, do you think it's okay for an adult female person with a vagina to expose her genitals to little girls?

Is this some kind of 'gotcha' ?

Think about it. If a woman were to take her little girl into a communal 'single sex' changing room or similar labelled 'female', she would expect to see only females in there. If she was aware it was a communal changing room, she might expect that some women might be naked in there and therefore her little girl might see some breasts or the outer gentials of the other women. She can make an informed decision based on that knowledge about whether she wants her child exposed to that.

What she would not be expecting to see in a 'single sex female changing room', is a cock and balls. Therefore if males were allowed in and she was not aware of that, she wouldn't be able to make an informed decision about what she exposes her daughter to, would she?

The naked man in that incident self-identified as a woman, but turned out to be a sexual predator with previous offences of sexual assault against women and girls.

Same as in dozens of other cases of sexual violence. As predicted. And is continuing to happen.

@Wavedancer99

Sex or gender? Because sex your born as gender is what you identify as

Human beings are not clownfish a scalpel does not change your sex

Good, so in other words, the sex of the individual isn't the issue, the act of exposing one's genitals is.

Nope. Sex is very much a proven issue. "MOJ Offender Management Statistics (OMS-Q) show that > 99% of all sexual offenders are male (never below 99% for two decades 2001-20). ONS & Eurostats (2018) show 88-90% of those "sexually offended against" are female".

And just like that, you immediately disregard and speak over the intersex people who are also trans or non-binary.

How is saying 'People with DSDs are still either male or female' doing that?

@Wavedancer99, can you reconcile trans with non-binary?

They should logically be the opposite of each other, no?

How does “non-binary” exist? Where does it exist?

If it only exists in someone’s “identity”, which is in their psyche, how can it exist in the real world?

"You’re literally telling us we think the very opposite of the GC position, which kind of suggests you don’t really know what it is."

Because you do, you are not "critical of gender" at all.

Sorting people into the categories of "men" and "women" is gender. Organizing society around sex, including through "sex-based" rules and segregation, is gender.

All of these things are socially constructed.

There's nothing categorizing trans women as "men" except your attempt to socially mandate it.

@Wavedancer99 do you accept that one sex class of human is overwhelmingly responsible for violence, particularly sexual violence, against the other sex class?

Can you name which sex class transwomen are in?

Giving it one more go to see if you can answer either of these basic questions @Wavedancer99

A) What is a woman? (Without using the word woman in your definition)

B) When we separate human beings into sex categories (male and female), it becomes very clear that one sex poses a statistical threat to the other. Men are responsible for 98% of sex crimes. Women and children are overwhelmingly the victims. If we do not segregate based on sex, how do you propose that we safeguard against this clear danger?

There's nothing categorizing trans women as "men" except your attempt to socially mandate it.

What is it that categorises transwomen as women expect their say so? And why should I go along with that?

Well you can't argue with stupid 🤷🏼‍♀️

@Wavedancer99

"You’re literally telling us we think the very opposite of the GC position, which kind of suggests you don’t really know what it is."

Because you do, you are not "critical of gender" at all.

Sorting people into the categories of "men" and "women" is gender. Organizing society around sex, including through "sex-based" rules and segregation, is gender.

All of these things are socially constructed.

There's nothing categorizing trans women as "men" except your attempt to socially mandate it.

Oh, you are so close! Almost getting it!

If gender is socially constructed, what are the bits that aren’t?

You talk about sex. Is that not socially constructed?

So how do the two fit together?

Think - really hard!!

@Wavedancer99

"And despite the variations in sex development, people with these conditions are still either male or female. I believe karotyping is used to determine which."

And just like that, you immediately disregard and speak over the intersex people who are also trans or non-binary.

Almost like you're just cherrypicking the ones who happen to be useful to you.

It's astounding how you just keep up with the fiction that human beings can change sex. People with a DSD (as I said before, many find the term 'intersex' to be insulting) may well be trans or non binary.

It still does not mean that human beings can change sex.

You still haven't provided any evidence that they can. Wouldn't that knock all our arguments on the head? Why not just produce the evidence that you are basing your entire argument on?

[quote foxgoosefinch]@Wavedancer99, can you reconcile trans with non-binary?

They should logically be the opposite of each other, no?

How does “non-binary” exist? Where does it exist?

If it only exists in someone’s “identity”, which is in their psyche, how can it exist in the real world?[/quote]
How and why would it be the opposite?

Non-binary gender identities are identities that exist outside the binary identities of "man" and "woman".

Being trans means having a different gender identity than assigned at birth, and non-binary people's identities are different than assigned at birth, therefore they fall under the trans umbrella.

I tell you one fecking thing the men in Afghanistan have no problem knowing which of the other humans are women. There is no identifying out of it for those women, you have no fecking clue.

Bloody hell, this is so daft.

A male person can give themselves breast implants and pump themselves full of hormones in order to give the outward impression that they are female. If that's what they want to do, then crack on.

But women should still be entitled to exist as an entity and feel that they can group themselves as such. That isn't transphobic, that's just sensible.

There are men, transmen, transwomen and women. There. Everyone gets to be represented, brave and stunning. Designate some loos as gender neutral and we can all get on with our lives and stop having to argue with strangers on the internet.

@Whitefire

I tell you one fecking thing the men in Afghanistan have no problem knowing which of the other humans are women. There is no identifying out of it for those women, you have no fecking clue.

Yeah, because they use the exact same bioessentialist criteria that you do. This isn't hard ro understand.

Being trans means having a different gender identity than assigned at birth, and non-binary people's identities are different than assigned at birth

Gender identities are not 'assigned at birth'. The sex is observed. No one 'assigns' anything, that makes it sound like some sort of decision is made.