Zara - male bodies in female changing room

[BoreOfWhabylon]

An unimpressed Editor-at-large of the MoS was also there

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10275757/CHARLOTTE-GRIFFITHS-facing-dilemma.html

[quote Cordyceps]@DoubleTweenQueen my point, perhaps badly made, is that people think that a man in the busy Zara changing room makes it unsafe, while a strictly female-only changing room is safe. That perception is wrong. It doesn't mean that someone is wrong for feeling unsafe in one situation and safe in the other - I know, logically, that I'm not at risk being alone on the top deck of the bus with 10 teenage girls. That doesn't mean I'm wrong to feel my illogical fear, but then again, it doesn't mean that it's necessarily the bus company's responsibility to make me feel better about the situation. I don't think that, realistically, any woman is at real risk in the specific scenario of "man in the Zara changing rooms" and I don't think they have any particular obligation to make people "feel" safer by policing their changing cubicles. You may disagree. It'a a big wide world and people have different opinions.[/quote]
In the way of life, women are less strong than men. I'd rather take my chances fighting off 10 teen girls than one man.
The bus is a public space and has cameras that record movement and often sound. If I were to be assaulted by a man on a bus, the cameras would likely catch that, and his image and I may get a resolution. Note "may"
In this particular news article its actually men, plural. Not one man alone.
You think a woman stands any chance at all if two men decided to assault her? You are much mistaken. Again I'd prefer to take on the teen girls.

Now I personally dont give a shit about unisex changing rooms, mainly cos I dont use changing rooms at all, ever. For reasons.
But I do give a shit about women who do use changing rooms. And they are as entitled as any man is to say they want only single sex. That is their right in law.
If we must have unisex changing rooms, the easiest and cheapest way is to make all mens from now on, unisex.
Solved the issues for women in one easy move. Didnt even cost money.
If men for some reason do not like this idea, they can do what all us women have done for the last however long. Suck it up buttercup or campaign to change it.

^ 100% what Terfydactyl said

@Cordyceps I accept that voyeuristic men aren't necessarily dangerous but explain to me why women have to put up with it?

"There's men, women, transgender, non binary and other ways to identify. The issue isn't with men and woman it's about changing rooms not meeting all needs. I think we work better if we all support each other rather than it being woman against everyone else. I'm not gas lighting woman I'm questioning a woman who choose to publish an article about why men should not be allowed in women's changing rooms. but did she speak to the people involved to find out why the woman's changing room was most appropriate for them? She judged and assumed.”

If you think we should support each other, can you tell me how women are being supported?

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

DB178 There's men, women, transgender, non binary and other ways to identify. The issue isn't with men and woman it's about changing rooms not meeting all needs.

That should read "and three or four hundred other ways to identify".

And to meet all needs, every shop would need several hundred changing rooms, one for each gender.

The issue, as anyone with a brain can tell after about three seconds' thought, is not with "men and women". It is with men who do not respect boundaries, decency or common politeness.

I actually don't think there are 3 or 4 hundred other ways to identify. I think identity is so individual there are as many ways as there are people in the word. So whilst it's an interesting thing to think about, it does not provide helpful categories which enable us to differentiate groups of people. Man and woman does though...

but did she speak to the people involved to find out why the woman's changing room was most appropriate for them?

Did they go up to all the women in the changing rooms and speak to the to find out whether the women's would still be appropriate for them if they used it? Can you explain why you have chosen to ask one group of people (women) to do all the work here rather than the other group (men)?

I see one poster has said that women aren’t realistically at risk from men in the changing rooms. It would be wonderful if we lived in a world where such fears are irrational, but this poster seems incredibly naive if they think that men in women’s changing rooms don’t pose any risk to women. I know a perfectly normal guy who was just jailed for filming in women’s changing rooms and toilets over a period of many years. Voyeurism is a crime. It’s mostly done by men. Honestly, we are expected to believe that trepidation about men in changing rooms is irrational?

5 years ago men never had the brass neck to walk into womens changing rooms

Women on here defending them

What’s wrong with you who defend them ?

Cant belive it

Those defending may not be women of course but there are a significant amount of women who are allies.

They are cousins of those turkeys who vote for Christmas.

No one should be defending men going into womens changing rooms

Chancers so they are. Showing their male dominance. We can do what we want women.

And you can’t stop us

Chancers

@ChattyLion

^ 100% what Terfydactyl said

Thank you

It's ludicrous to suggest women are not at risk of men in changing rooms.

If changing rooms are mixed, which they are fast becoming, every bloody predator, bully, intimidator, misogynist, wanker in the country will walk into them.

🙄🙄🙄

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

but did she speak to the people involved to find out why the woman's changing room was most appropriate for them?

Did they go up to all the women in the changing rooms and speak to the to find out whether the women's would still be appropriate for them if they used it? Can you explain why you have chosen to ask one group of people (women) to do all the work here rather than the other group (men)?

Only in reference to writing a well researched article.

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

"There's men, women, transgender, non binary and other ways to identify. The issue isn't with men and woman it's about changing rooms not meeting all needs. I think we work better if we all support each other rather than it being woman against everyone else. I'm not gas lighting woman I'm questioning a woman who choose to publish an article about why men should not be allowed in women's changing rooms. but did she speak to the people involved to find out why the woman's changing room was most appropriate for them? She judged and assumed.”

If you think we should support each other, can you tell me how women are being supported?

Three women die at the hands of men a week. We are not supported and that is wrong. I'm guessing transgender and non binary people would prefer to use womens changing rooms because it feels safer than using mens. I don't think woman should have to share changing rooms at risk of their own safety. I think companies need to rethink the approach. And I think the author wrote a nerve touching article that could have just highlighted the need for a better system rather than blaming the individuals.

I ask another staff member if she knew the policy and she says the same thing: 'Our managers tell us to let people into the women's changing rooms if they are carrying women's clothes', she said.

Has there been a response from Zara? this is a shocking 'policy'. not a safe place for teenage girls or women.

@AlfonsoTheUnrepentant

The issue isn't with men and woman it's about changing rooms not meeting all needs

What needs? It's a frickin' changing room, not therapy.

Because transgender and non binary people don't have a place to try clothes on. Everyone should have the right to safe places.

We are not safety officers for men.

It’s just that

Who even knows what a non binary person is

I want to be able to go in a changing room with a baby in a buggy and a toddler who opens curtains and not have men there

It’s really simple

Am not guarding men.

Go speak to men and tell them that trans and non binary people should be safe in there

Me and my kids are not guarding them. It’s that simple

@EricCartmansUnderpants

don't assume men are out to attack but I just wouldn't have thought to at the time.

The men who go into women's changing rooms are enjoying being there, the enjoyment heightened with women unable and afraid to say no. Why would any woman be happy with that?

Also I wouldn't write a public article complaining about individuals without knowing the full story

The full story is that two men were in the women's changing room whilst a woman was in there half dressed. She did not agree or consent. She believed the changing room was as it advertised itself as, a woman's changing room.
That is all you need to know.

Enough with the woman feelings. They are men.

I agree. Heartless men.

[quote DoubleTweenQueen]@DBI78

From your previous comment:
"There's men, women, transgender, non binary and other ways to identify. The issue isn't with men and woman it's about changing rooms not meeting all needs. I think we work better if we all support each other rather than it being woman against everyone else. I'm not gas lighting woman I'm questioning a woman who choose to publish an article about why men should not be allowed in women's changing rooms. but did she speak to the people involved to find out why the woman's changing room was most appropriate for them? She judged and assumed.”

There are two sexes - male and female. They are legally protected characteristics. The changing rooms in the article were designated thus.

There are potentially millions of ways to define one’s own beautifully unique identity, (I find the current political gender ideology list ridiculously limited), but that doesn’t change which changing room you ought to head for, if they are designated by sex. If we can all get our heads around that basic fact, we can enjoy being completely in agreement and supportive of each other quite nicely.

The refusal to acknowledge reality only perpetuates division and mistrust, which is a great shame.[/quote]
But maybe those people don't feel safe in Mens changing rooms either. That not to say it's ok for women to feel unsafe. So the solution is improve the changing rooms.

It’s not. Men should stay out of our changing rooms and go speak,to company’s if they don’t like it

Enough now.

Stay out men. Stop being chancers.

Let us women and our kids be safe

@allmywhat

Also I wouldn't write a public article complaining about individuals without knowing the full story.

She's not complaining about individuals - notice how they aren't named? She's criticising Zara's policy. It's not like two different 6ft bodies with penises would have been magically better. Their identities are irrelevant.

I agree. two six foot men walk into a changing room, take up space and talk over a woman in her underwear. Calling them 'individuals' is a deconstruction, a dismantling of what a man is, obfuscation of what a male is and adds no value

Go lobby for third spaces for the trans and non binary people then.

Stop asking women to give up their spaces.

Women are not human shields to provide safety for vulnerable males. If males need protection from other males in their changing rooms and toilets, they need to get that sorted other ways.

And if no extra physical provision can be made, then stores need to have staff monitor the changing rooms.

Males should never have been given access to female single sex spaces.

@Artichokeleaves
I don't know who accessed the rooms it could be a frightened transgender person, it could be a privileged male who thinks they have the right to do what they want. I don't know. All I'm saying is to me this highlighted a need to change things so everyone can feel safe. With regard to the I don't assume a man is going to attack me. I regret saying that as I like most females take precautions around walking alone, drinking, being out at night and many other scenarios because I fear being attacked by men. I don't really think about it because it's ingrained to protect myself.I think I meant in terms of context for the article but I didn't think the comment through.

No,hellabore they shouldn’t have

It’s fucking bat shit crazy that this is even happening