Zara - male bodies in female changing room

[BoreOfWhabylon]

An unimpressed Editor-at-large of the MoS was also there

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10275757/CHARLOTTE-GRIFFITHS-facing-dilemma.html

I think we work better if we all support each other rather than it being woman against everyone else. I'm not gas lighting woman I'm questioning a woman who choose to publish an article about why men should not be allowed in women's changing rooms. but did she speak to the people involved to find out why the woman's changing room was most appropriate for them? She judged and assumed

Women are not support humans for dysphoric males. Why is it always on women to solve everyone else's problems first before we are allowed to have or do anything else.

Women solved theor problem by setting up amd campaigning for spaces just for women.

Males are free to do the sake for them s long as it doesn't involve cuckooing ours

No male should feel they have the right to access a female single sex space. No male.

It doesn’t matter how they feel that they are entitled to, because of their gender.

Do you think that the male with the semi erect penis should have been able to enter a spa bath with a nine year old because they identify as a woman?

Why should any male use a female changing room?

This is the effect of prioritising gender over sex when safeguarding is involved. Sometimes sex matters.

To tell women otherwise is gaslighting them by telling them. You are creating a special sub group of males who cannot be questioned.

So what if she did ask those males why they felt they were entitled to be there? In your mind, if they answered they were women because they identified as such, you are stating that journalist should have accepted them being there.

What is not gaslighting about that point of view?

There should be no sacred group of males that are allowed to access female single sex spaces. Unless they are u set 8 years old.

And by under 8 years old, I mean just that. Not someone who identifies as under 8 as we also have a group of males who identify as children too. Should they be also allowed to access female spaces?

Thing is, as a male sex person, they’ve had most of a lifetime of using men only facilities (from what 8 up from then their mums stopped taking them into the ladies loos and changing areas?). So they are used to being around other men. They might not feel comfortable, but it’s what they know.

Now I don’t like open changing areas - I’m not comfortable being bakes or undressed around strangers full stop. That’s just me. But I know if it’s other women, there’s nothing I’ve got that they haven’t seen before and vice versa. So I use a cubicle, don’t shower naked, get in and out fast...

I don’t demand that I use someone else’s facility because I don’t feel comfortable (ignoring the fact that I would not be welcome or make other people feel uncomfortable or unsafe - or it’s not the rules/unfair/I’d be making people who ‘belong’ there avoid the facilities). Maybe it’s a woman thing.

And of course, to reiterate, telling women that males are women too and to not trust their instincts that they are now undressed with males standing over them is also gaslighting.

Who benefits from that? Males do. What benefit do females get from that apart from others telling them they are kind.

I know why some males would do this. What's baffling is why some women go along with it. Men aren't women. They know they're not. Female brain in male body?? It's just a brain in a male body. I can't get my head around the nonsense people fall for.

I don’t see their brain or feelz - are we supposed to have bloody mind reading abilities? I can’t see auras or halos either.

DB178
I'm not gas lighting woman I'm questioning a woman who choose to publish an article about why men should not be allowed in women's changing rooms. but did she speak to the people involved to find out why the woman's changing room was most appropriate for them?

Yet no organisation / government has ever asked women whether we consent to having men intrude into spaces where women and girls undress and are vulnerable. Why do you think that is?

I think we work better if we all support each other rather than it being woman against everyone else. I'm not gas lighting woman I'm questioning a woman who choose to publish an article about why men should not be allowed in women's changing rooms. but did she speak to the people involved to find out why the woman's changing room was most appropriate for them? She judged and assumed

Why should entitled men need support from half naked women who are buying clothes, underwear, etc?? She's buying a Christmas top, not running a soup kitchen. Shall we just have one big section for adults and children too? That way, we can support children and they can support us, whilst everyone gets changed, yay.

Women aren't a service. We're not a resource to validate men, against our own interests.

Is there any part of you that even thinks about the women and girls in this situation? Anywhere? Even for a second? It's mind blowing how your entire focus is the men. The women getting changed should be supporting them, did the woman even ask them why they were in her space, how can she tell they're not women, did she check, challenge, question?

The answer to what's in it for women always appears to be to fulfil their role as a service human.

Strewth.

This post seems to have descended along familiar lines. The same anti-women's rights arguments are being aired in order to avoid discussing the actual issue. So we've had:
You should be kind (but not expect kindness)
It's the authors fault for not waiting for a cubicle
Changing rooms like this don't actually exit (!!!)
You're in an echo chamber (despite the fact that women are asking for actual discussion starting with a definition of 'woman' which TRA have refused to ever offer).
Some women have always looked a bit like men so there is no need for women to have separate spaces (even though that 'fact' has not stopped women being paid less, sexually assaulted etc. etc.)

So the usual weak 'arguments' designed to bully women into submission. Nothing new to see here.

Being kind to males datun. That is the underlying theme.

I can feel assured the teenaged female non-binary and transboys I know all would feel very uncomfortable having males in their changing rooms. Because ultimately they know that male trans people are just that. Male.

Their answer, so as to not be labeled transphobic by their friends, would be to exclude themselves. So again, females exclude themselves to be able to make males feel good.

DB178
I'm not gas lighting woman I'm questioning a woman who choose to publish an article about why men should not be allowed in women's changing rooms. but did she speak to the people involved to find out why the woman's changing room was most appropriate for them?

I wonder if this poster ever reads back what they have written?

What a load of codswallop!

Whatiswrongwithmyknee

You forgot one. ‘It’s the Mail’. And the journalist works for the Mail. (Doubly shameful it seems. )

I'm still trying to get my head round this. Those women who think that trans women are women. Is it because they think they're gay men underneath? Gay men have always been given certain privilege around women in the way that they talk explicitly about sex and the way they behave. Women often just laugh it off. Because they're gay. Safe?
The gay best friend that is a thing for some women. Is this what it's about?

@334bu

DB178 *I'm not gas lighting woman I'm questioning a woman who choose to publish an article about why men should not be allowed in women's changing rooms. but did she speak to the people involved to find out why the woman's changing room was most appropriate for them?*

I wonder if this poster ever reads back what they have written?

What a load of codswallop!

It's unbelievable. Half naked women, rushing to buy a top before their Christmas do, whilst IN their own changing room, need men to tell them why it's completely appropriate for entitled men to make them feel uncomfortable.

Male supremacy on steroids.

Yet no organisation / government has ever asked women whether we consent to having men intrude into spaces where women and girls undress and are vulnerable. Why do you think that is?

It's a puzzle!

@EricCartmansUnderpants

I'm still trying to get my head round this. Those women who think that trans women are women. Is it because they think they're gay men underneath? Gay men have always been given certain privilege around women in the way that they talk explicitly about sex and the way they behave. Women often just laugh it off. Because they're gay. Safe? The gay best friend that is a thing for some women. Is this what it's about?

I'm sure some do. Many people think that gay men are entitled to violate women's boundaries in the way that heterosexual men aren't.

And yes, I do wonder if they all realise quite how many of these men are heterosexual. Not that it makes any difference.

But it's extraordinary how other heterosexual men aren't, apparently, given a free pass, just those who say some magic words.

Who are the people in these government positions that have never asked women what they want?
Activists? Men who think they should be able to see women undress? And so telling women that men can be women provides the magic key?
Women who are gullible enough to believe the lie?
Who else?

As cartman said himself, 'I've got a golden ticket'.

Not forgetting parents who have put their children on this path and are heavily invested as their livelihood job depends on it

And yes, I do wonder if they all realise quite how many of these men are heterosexual. Not that it makes any difference.

It doesn't make any difference. But I think there's something here.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Not forgetting parents who have put their children on this path and are heavily invested as their livelihood job depends on it

What sort of bollock brain would do this to their kids?

This could all be resolved by making it law that shops must display signage with one of three options: male changing, female changing, mixed sex changing.

That way, shops who want to be inclusive (to males) and provide mixed sex changing rooms can do so and customers can assess if they're happy with that or if they want to take their business elsewhere.

If mixed sex changing then turns out to be the future of retail so be it, I would be one of many sticking to online shopping. What is not acceptable is this attempt to deceive customers by unclear signage because shops know that informed customers would not actually consent.

I'd wager we'd quickly see either expensive refits to include cubicles, or perhaps a return to male and female changing, plus a few mixed sex cubicles.

It's already inclusive by segregating by sex. If it needs to go further than that then it should be mixed sex instead of men's and keep the women's just for women. I dont suppose many women would want to use the men's, but it's an option if they want to share with men. Better this way than letting the men into the women's.

The only way to stop this is to not buy as much as a stitch from any store that allows/encourages men to go into women's changing rooms.

That's it really and we have the power to do that. Every time one of buys anything from these stores, they use it to validate this dangerous stupidity.

Economics will always take sway over half baked 'woke' ideas that a man can be a woman or a poodle or a mushroom.