Anti trans for asking not to conflate sex with gender?

[OatALot]

On a menopause event at work and in the comments section they are being asked to use inclusive language such as 'people who menstrate'. These are being challenged and those who challenged are being called terf and accusssd of making others feel unsafe.

The people doing the presentation therefore have taken the stance anyone can go through the menopause.

I'd love to feedback that they should not conflate sex and gender. Surely if we just talk in term of sex and a biological function it can't be challenged? It takes the discussion away from a condition impacting females.

Thanks, scrollingleaves. I am just back from a fruitless trip to the chemists where they have told me that my HRT is out of stock, and they don’t know when it will be back. my tetchiness about that was not improved by immediately seeing a man finger wagging about how “people” experience the menopause. So nice to sit on the sidelines and lecture like that. How cosy. How completely devoid of understanding.

I had a sub-total hysterectomy in my 30s. Lost the uterus, kept the ovaries. No longer menstruated but didn't go through the menopause for another 14 years.
How can "people who menstruate" be construed as an inclusive term in my case?

@OatALot

Colleagues in the annonomous comments section of Teams when someone challenged the 'people who menstrate' comment. We were also referred to as CIS in the comments.

Cis is an insult and should not be used by anyone with a brain.

They should talk about women or 'biologically female' which includes trans men.

Trans women do not experience menopause no matter what they claim.

If someone feels 'unsafe' because of female biology they need therapy.

Fear of dogs I get, they can bite.
Fear of spiders and snakes is probably an evolutionary safety mechanism.
Fear of biology is just weird.

There are so many reasons why 'people who' is the wrong approach. I actually agree. If some females feel excluded from an event that is meant to include the widest demographic of people including those who may have language barriers, then those females who feel excluded probably need a session that is unique to their needs anyway.

I am all for a session for those 'men' who need to have a session just for them since they are so very offended by 'women' needing an iota of humanity to discuss something that we have experienced so much shame for.

Tell you what DadJoke, how about you tell us just why after decades of being told by male doctors that I should just get over my menstrual woes, because every other woman has them too and seems to cope, should I listen to anyone else try to restrict how I want to be addressed.

How kind are you to come and tell me when I have had decades and decades of neglect from male doctors about an issue that only effects females, that I should be ashamed to ask for a modicum of acknowledgement that it is actually ok to discuss menstruation and the significant impacts on my life?

Because someone in my workplace might not like to acknowledge their sex.

Doesn't seem to be kind at all. Seems to me to just be more of the same misogynistic attempt to shame women for finally discussing an issue that has been swept under the carpet for ever. Well done!

Sarah
“Fear of dogs I get, they can bite.
Fear of spiders and snakes is probably an evolutionary safety mechanism.
Fear of biology is just weird.“

And if people are so afraid of things like spiders and dogs that life becomes difficult for them, they get psychotherapy. And they don’t think changing the name of ‘dog’ will take away whatever it is about dogs that frightens them. It

@Wakeywakeysleepyhead

I had a sub-total hysterectomy in my 30s. Lost the uterus, kept the ovaries. No longer menstruated but didn't go through the menopause for another 14 years. How can "people who menstruate" be construed as an inclusive term in my case?

Excellent point. And I’m sorry that happened to you it’s absurd. Menopause is marked by the cessation of menstruation so aiming it at “people who menstruate” is like setting up a bar at an AA meeting. Nonsensical.

Also for helleofabore.

It’s not “inclusive”. None of this language mangling is “inclusive”. It’s about control. Say the words, even if you don’t believe them.

Yeah! Call spiders fluffy fairy sweet peas and I'd still be set off by the way they move, or don't quite move, which is worse.

But hey! Brand new words, brand new therapy for the whole world. Everyone but those trying to square biological circles.

Argh, mangled post- should have read “nonsensical, and more so with cases like yours where its not linked with menstruation at all”. Sorry.

@ScrollingLeaves

“DadJoke Some people experience menopause, and I guess this event was for people who experience menopause. Some of those people are women, and some of them are men.”

All of those people who experience menopause (a biological phenomenon) are women ( a biological group) Hence the use of ‘women’ to name those people in this context.

No, some of those people experiencing menopause are men. This approach literally prevents people conflating sex and gender by talking about the actual issue.

Pretzel logic.

Say something that isn't true, cannot possibly be factual and think that the ensuing discussion is a good thing.

You give yourself away so easily... literally!

And the logic reverse! Go on then what do you consider be the difference between sex and gender? How does calling some of the people who can menstruate men help avoid confusion?

Only women experience the menopause.

No, some of those people experiencing menopause are men

The time for men to worry when blood is pouring out of their penis is when it happens, not when it stops.

Honest to god, how did we get here?

No, some of those people experiencing menopause are men. This approach literally prevents people conflating sex and gender by talking about the actual issue.

It is you who is conflating sex and gender
Menopause has nothing to do with gender, it is something which only happens to adult human females, because of their sex.

@DadJoke women menstruate

Not ken

Men not Ken

Ken doesn’t menstruate either

This approach literally prevents people conflating sex and gender by talking about the actual issue.

And then when males turn up at the event concerned that they haven't yet had menopause or what is this new thing that all people have, are they needing support too... and make the females feel uncomfortable to discuss their issues, that is quite fine with you too eh DadJoke?

Anything that makes women feel that they cannot actually discuss their needs is rather ok with you I take it then?

You simply cannot see anything past your own prejudiced agenda which on this thread is actually not making a menopause event a place where females can attend and have dignity and privacy.

That is what happens when males push for gender neutral language or to forced themselves into the definitions of words that actually exclude them to suit their agenda. And some females who, frankly, are solely focused on themselves and not on the entire sex class of people who fall under the words that they wish to redefine.

Menopause mostly affects women who are at an age where they are generally experiencing not just sexism (which is nothing new) but now ageism in a world that seems to be getting worse for how they treat women of that age group.

And here you are with your censoring and censuring.

Tell us DadJoke, what personal experience do you have with menopause again?

“DadJoke
No, some of those people experiencing menopause are men. This approach literally prevents people conflating sex and gender by talking about the actual issue.“

Trans men are a gender identity. Women are a biological entity.

Putting women and trans men together as ‘ people’ experiencing menopause, conflates sex and gender.

@334bu

*No, some of those people experiencing menopause are men. This approach literally prevents people conflating sex and gender by talking about the actual issue.*

It is you who is conflating sex and gender
Menopause has nothing to do with gender, it is something which only happens to adult human females, because of their sex.

That's right - menopause has nothing to do with gender, so there isn't any point in confusing the issue when discussing it. Some people experience the menopause. Some of the are men. Some of them are women. All of them are people.

Tedious.

Trite.

Twaddle.

@ScrollingLeaves

“DadJoke No, some of those people experiencing menopause are men. This approach literally prevents people conflating sex and gender by talking about the actual issue.“

Trans men are a gender identity. Women are a biological entity.

Putting women and trans men together as ‘ people’ experiencing menopause, conflates sex and gender.

Saying people who experience menopause is utterly unambiguous, inclusive and entirely inoffensive except to people who are obsessed with denying that trans men are men. Because you conflate the idea that women are exclusively a sex with women as gender, it's even more important to use unambiguous terms which don't confuse you.

Menopause is awful.

DadJoke, have you gone through menopause or are you likely to go through menopause?

What on earth makes you think you have the remotest qualification to tell a board full of women how we ought to speak about menopause, dadjoke?

Only women experience menopause. If men and women experience menopause, but “gender” has nothing to do with it, then you’re saying that men-by-sex (XY males) experience it, which is an obvious nonsense. But if “gender” has nothing to do with it men-by-gender (xx females) obviously aren’t included either, so your claim is nonsense again.

It doesn’t even make sense using your own logic.

Just stop.

Maybe DadJoke has symptoms of menopause at the moment. I do and I feel pretty awful. I also have flooding issues. Rubbish!

DadJoke, are you also going through menopause at the moment? Hi 👋 in that case.

@DadJoke
Re: people being the best word to replace the word ‘woman’ when discussing the menopause
51% of the population are women, not ‘abstract’ people.

Are the few of those women who identify as trans men, or identify as non binary, upset or triggered by the word woman? It has nothing to do with the gender of the trans men or non- binary women.

It is a made up problem in their own minds if they find the word women repulsive ir upsetting to them. Do they not think it is alarming for women the world over to lose the word that describes them? How narcissistic.