Anti trans for asking not to conflate sex with gender?

[OatALot]

On a menopause event at work and in the comments section they are being asked to use inclusive language such as 'people who menstrate'. These are being challenged and those who challenged are being called terf and accusssd of making others feel unsafe.

The people doing the presentation therefore have taken the stance anyone can go through the menopause.

I'd love to feedback that they should not conflate sex and gender. Surely if we just talk in term of sex and a biological function it can't be challenged? It takes the discussion away from a condition impacting females.

A fellow employee calling other employees terfs surely demands a report of harassment and creating a hostile working environment.
What would happen at work if a colleague called a fellow colleague another slur, a racial slur perhaps?
Check work policies and complain on those lines. It’s not acceptable especially in a governmental role.

Could you perhaps comment that the CEO of Stonewall said in an interview last week: gender critical beliefs have always been protected under the Equality Act and it’s absolutely possible for people to hold gender critical beliefs without expressing them in a way that’s harmful to trans people

I suppose it depends on whether people are still taking Stonewall seriously.

If women want to be called women then their employer should recognise that and discipline anyone who harasses or bullies them because of it.

@Theflamingnerd

“ I'd also be inclined to raise a concern that these individuals deliberately targeted the event with the sole intention of derailing a conversation about issues that affect women in the work place. These individuals have therefore created a hostile environment based purely on sex, which is a protected characteristic. They have prevented a protected group from discussing issues that affect them, through slurs and harassment based on the protected characteristic.

If anyone has any claim on feeling unsafe in this scenarios it's women.”

This!

Exactly! They deliberately sought out to detail something that affects only women. If you’re employer does not wish to creat w hostile work environment for women then this needs to be addressed.

I would also complain about “terf” being used as its hate speech and file a formal complaint and point out that sex is a protected characteristic and that biological topics need to use appropriate language.

Hormones deficiency syndrome? First off there are many hormone deficiency syndromes. Menopause is not only a hormonal disorder. It is actually a bodily process that includes hormonal changes.

And it affects only women. So then derailing and refusing the accept that women at work need to be able to discuss this without being harassed and being subjected to hate speech (terf) and Mis gendered (cis).

You were misgendered (cis) and you were subjected to hate speech op. Address this with your HR department.

*sought out to derail something specifically for women.

All this word policing is exhausting isn't it?

OP "On a menopause event at work and in the comments section they are being asked to use inclusive language such as 'people who menstrate'. These are being challenged and those who challenged are being called terf and accusssd of making others feel unsafe."

Well there's your answer. As soon as they say you have to be a person who menstruates tell them that makes you feel unsafe
.
Alinskys Rules for Radicals...Rule No. 4.... Hold your enemies to their own standards😁

@CatsOperatingInGangs

A fellow employee calling other employees terfs surely demands a report of harassment and creating a hostile working environment. What would happen at work if a colleague called a fellow colleague another slur, a racial slur perhaps? Check work policies and complain on those lines. It’s not acceptable especially in a governmental role.

Fucking right.

Time's up on this shit.

So then derailing and refusing the accept that women at work need to be able to discuss this without being harassed and being subjected to hate speech (terf) and Mis gendered (cis)

This is important. They've not only harassed women, they've also misgendered them.

I'm sure HR wouldn't tolerate any of the women deliberately using incorrect pronouns, so they should hold others to the same standard.

Even taking everything about gender out of it, a group of employees calling others terfs via an anonymous platform is bullying. The term was used as a slur and intended to silence and intimidate. HR would not tolerate any other group hurling politically loaded slurs at another group of employees in this manner. I'd report it to HR, no platform is as anonymous as we're lead to believe, they will have the means to identify the offenders.

At the very least it's bullying and should be addressed as such.

Hormone deficiency syndrome?

I would be very quick to highlight to management that in an event to raise the awareness of menopause and just how women already are feeling othered during this time, that the fact someone is insisting on creating even more hostility around menopause by changing the language and not using additive language (you can quote Stonewall there too). Changing the name of a natural process (whether brought on naturally or not) to Hormone deficiency syndrome is, in my view, othering.

Plus, surely those with Growth hormone deficiency will feel that their medical condition is being encroached on.

The use of language such as terf should also be reported as it is indeed creating a hostile work environment. It should never be used in any work place. And luckily, you can even now quote Maya's case for that too.

@Doona

How is 'a person who menstruates' worse than 'a woman who menstruates' ?

Because sex is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010 and menstruation isn't.

Unless you list out every single thing that males and females can experience as a result of their biological sex which might require legal protection at some point in their lives (at work, using a service, etc), in the Equality Act, then the erasure of the word "woman" (as defined in the Equality Act) means that "menopausal people", regardless of whether they self-identify as women, non-binary, men or something else, are not protected under the law.

Women - female people (or female-bodied people, if that's more a comfortable term for some, although it's not how the law describes them) - share a set of sex characteristics as a result of their biological sex. It is vital to acknowledge this fact to ensure that (1) no-one is disadvantaged in life as a result of their biological sex, and that (2) there is a mechanism in law to challenge any discrimination or harassment.

@Theflamingnerd

I'd also be inclined to raise a concern that these individuals deliberately targeted the event with the sole intention of derailing a conversation about issues that affect women in the work place. These individuals have therefore created a hostile environment based purely on sex, which is a protected characteristic. They have prevented a protected group from discussing issues that affect them, through slurs and harassment based on the protected characteristic.

If anyone has any claim on feeling unsafe in this scenarios it's women.

exactly. It's targeted harassment. Bet it was men on the call doing this

I don't want to pay taxes toward the salaries of misogynist bullies in civil servant positions who slur women as te*fs in a meeting about menstruation

'Hormone deficiency syndrome' is a bloody vile way of describing menopause, and completely defeats the point of trying to normalise menopause (which I assume was an objective of the session). A premenopausal woman, a perimenopausal woman, and a postmenopausal woman all have different levels of different hormones to each other, and appropriate to their life stage. None of them are 'deficient' by virtue of this difference.

@NellWilsonsWhiteHair

'Hormone deficiency syndrome' is a bloody vile way of describing menopause, and completely defeats the point of trying to normalise menopause (which I assume was an objective of the session). A premenopausal woman, a perimenopausal woman, and a postmenopausal woman all have different levels of different hormones to each other, and appropriate to their life stage. None of them are 'deficient' by virtue of this difference.

It's a vile way to describe the menopause. There is nothing "deficient" about any woman approaching, going through or who has already experienced the menopause.

It is a completely natural and normal process, to call it a "deficiency" just others women in yet another way.

"Syndrome" isn't particularly flattering either, again it implies there is something wrong with women's biology.

But of course as we're frequently reminded, there's no harm caused by expanding the meaning of the word women

It's not just the protected characteristic of sex that is being ignored here, it's also age. Yes, some women go through an early menopause (my oldest friend did following cancer treatment in her 20s), but usually it's 'women of a certain age'. It's bloody hard enough being an older woman at work without more sticks to be beaten with

“TheFlamingnerd
It's targeted harassment. Bet it was men on the call doing this“

The horrible thing is that there might have been women saying this too.

@OatALot

Well it's finished and I want to feedback. I think I want to complain about the use of terf. Someone also suggested we use hormone deficient syndrome or something along those lines.

Bloody hell. Its not a syndrome and its not a deficiency, its a natural stage of life. How bloody disrespectful!

I work in private sector so we don't really have awareness raising or workshops like this. What we do have is professional adults who use their common sense to understand sometimes people experience things that can impact their work.

I think I know which I prefer

@Theflamingnerd

I'd also be inclined to raise a concern that these individuals deliberately targeted the event with the sole intention of derailing a conversation about issues that affect women in the work place. These individuals have therefore created a hostile environment based purely on sex, which is a protected characteristic. They have prevented a protected group from discussing issues that affect them, through slurs and harassment based on the protected characteristic.

If anyone has any claim on feeling unsafe in this scenarios it's women.

And this too.

Raising awareness of how menopause affects women in the workplace is vitally important and I'm so glad it is no longer a taboo subject, but it feels like someone used this as an opportunity to shame women.

Shall we describe type 1 diabetes as a hormone deficiency syndrome too? It is factually correct.

Menopause is not a malfunction, it’s a natural process. It’s what women’s bodies are designed to do.

@OatALot

On a menopause event at work and in the comments section they are being asked to use inclusive language such as 'people who menstrate'. These are being challenged and those who challenged are being called terf and accusssd of making others feel unsafe.

The people doing the presentation therefore have taken the stance anyone can go through the menopause.

I'd love to feedback that they should not conflate sex and gender. Surely if we just talk in term of sex and a biological function it can't be challenged? It takes the discussion away from a condition impacting females.

Sorry think I'm being daft- what is terf? Thanks

I've been perimenopausal for several years now. The gaps between my periods vary from 15 to 90 days. It took a couple of years for my periods to settle into a pattern when I was a teenager.

What do they mean by 'person who menstruates'? Someone who is currently menstruating, will menstruate in the next 2-3 weeks or has menstruated in the past? I can't be the only woman who doesn't know if I'm still a menstruator.

Sorry - ignore me. Posted on the wrong thread. Have asked MN to delete.

Brain fog!!!