Page 31 | Harrop MPTS Thread 3

RocketPanda · 30/11/2021 15:39

Doctor Disrepute will have this following him around for the rest of his career. Ha ha.

Motorina · 30/11/2021 15:44

I think from the point of view of his brief it probably is a win. He's whittled down a potentially lengthy suspension into a very short one. That's a successful outcome no doubt.

From Harrop's point of view? Any clinician who thinks being called infront of their regulator, having a misconduct finding, and then a suspension, on their record for life, is in any way a good outcome has a very poor grasp of what it actually means to be a professional. It's not just a job you turn up to. It's bigger than that. For any clinician with any sense of what a privilege it is to have patients trusting you with their care, that's a deeply shameful place to be.

FlyingOink · 30/11/2021 15:45

This outcome seems bizarre to me. A bit like a one month prison sentence though, maybe the disruption is the point.

FlyingOink · 30/11/2021 15:52

From Harrop's point of view? Any clinician who thinks being called infront of their regulator, having a misconduct finding, and then a suspension, on their record for life, is in any way a good outcome has a very poor grasp of what it actually means to be a professional. It's not just a job you turn up to. It's bigger than that. For any clinician with any sense of what a privilege it is to have patients trusting you with their care, that's a deeply shameful place to be.

Even if he is ashamed (at all) I doubt he'd admit it. But that's his business I guess. I'm glad there was a clear message sent that his behaviour was unacceptable and that the GMC are publicly seen to disapprove of someone using their registration number to add clout to their hobby of being a knob online.
I guess the next wager is whether he'll focus on work (and get dumped by his seedy mates) or go full on regardless. He's probably thinking he's winning the long game now his enemies have been doxxed online, which to me suggests he isn't about to give up online bunfights any time soon.

Manderleyagain · 30/11/2021 15:52

It's strange that they were concerned that he hadn't gained insight about his actions. Not fully anyway, it was only recent, was moving in the right direction, but wasn't there. Yet there are no conditions. The suspension is a mark of the seriousness I suppose, but you would expect them to require continued evidence of reflection and greater understanding. Is the fact he's deleted his twitter supposed to mean he could never do it again?

Signalbox · 30/11/2021 15:58

The panel seem to have decided that he is at low risk of repeating the conduct not because he has insight/remorse but because he is now fully aware of the consequences of repeating it. The month suspension is not to help him gain insight and remediate but rather it is a public interest sanction. On the plus side, I imagine his indemnity will go through the roof. I doubt his current indemnifiers will share the panel's opinion that he is unlikely to repeat the conduct (especially in view of the Vice article).

mateysmum · 30/11/2021 15:58

Motorina

I am flattered by your approval [ grin]. I am not worthy!

Thanks for all your knowledge over the last few days.

FlyingOink · 30/11/2021 16:00

What kind of conditions could they impose that wouldn't affect his Article 10 (iirc) rights?
It would be a long and expensive battle and all the free speech advocates would have to take Harrop's side. Nightmare.

There's no concern about his work, so it would have to be something restricting his ability to be a knob online; there just isn't an easy way to word something like that so it doesn't set a legal precedent surely.

The one month thing is serious enough to make the point yet not long enough to bother appealing, it does make some sort of sense although the whole thing is bizarre from start to finish really.

FionaMacCool · 30/11/2021 16:02

[quote JustGotHere]Reading about the personal cost for him of trying to impress his friends, who egged him on, makes me think of the kind of gullible kid that takes the joke too far or is willing to take any dare, the one that actually eats the worm, steals the car, takes the drug, dies of misadventure. Like, “doing a Dahmer,”, if you’ve seen the movie, My Friend Dahmer.

[/quote] I agree JustGotHere.

FlyingOink · 30/11/2021 16:05

I bet the GMC and the MPTS are relieved it's over. I doubt they normally get this level of interest or this level of attempted interference (press interviews mid tribunal, document leaks, etc). And I'm sure they were all nervous about being seen as somehow anti Lgbtqaibbqcctv too.

Signalbox · 30/11/2021 16:05

There's no concern about his work, so it would have to be something restricting his ability to be a knob online; there just isn't an easy way to word something like that so it doesn't set a legal precedent surely.

There aren't really any conditions to address behavioural issues like this. Professionals are just expected to be capable of a standard of behaviour. It's not something that's easy to remedy or teach. Either you know how to behave or you don't. Sometimes going through the process of a fitness to practice will make a person reflect and grow up a bit. Only time will tell if Harrop will have learned anything at all from the process.

Jeeeez · 30/11/2021 16:05

Talking to a few people that knew him years ago, his personality was to go all in on things. Once he decided on a position he would not let it go.

Judging by his choice of friends he still hangs out with and his specialist clinic work, I'm sure he'll remain a gender ideologue. Only time will tell if he has learned to keep out of public dog fights and reign his behaviour in...

Timefortea4 · 30/11/2021 16:09

I don't understand how a GP can post photos wearing a "terf repellent' pin badge and be considered for to practise.

Apologies if someone has already posted this but I looked at the GMC website and under Patient Guides and Materials there is a special guide for just one patient group. And it's not for women who believe sex is significant in a healthcare setting, obvs.

ArabellaScott · 30/11/2021 16:09

@FaceFullOfCake

I can confirm that Adrian Harrop is not appealing

Lovelyricepudding · 30/11/2021 16:22

It is a 'win' for his associates as it is less than we on here were hoping for. The impact on AH is irrelevant to them.

Lovelyricepudding · 30/11/2021 16:26

I don't understand how a GP can post photos wearing a "terf repellent' pin badge and be considered for to practise.

I think that was too recent to be considered at this tribunal. It could, however, form a new complaint.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 30/11/2021 16:30

@Motorina

On the length of the order, I am surprised it's only a month. I don't think that's consistent with the panel's finding that there was risk of repetition and limited insight. But we are where we are.

I think a review is unlikely as what's the point after a month.

However, I also don't think it's a light sanction. In addition to the very public embarrassment, there are these consequences:

He will have to declare it for ever and a day, any time he applies to a new job or for post-grad training. I'm not saying he's unemployable - there's a shortage of doctors - but anything competitive? It's going to be putting him at a real disadvantage.

I suspect (*@MissLucyEyelesbarrow* tell me if I'm wrong) he will have to be on a local performers list to work as a GP. His place on that list will lapse on suspension. He will have to reapply to go back on. This may take some time!

He can be assured of being very carefully watched going forward. If he continues to act as he has done he will end up in front of another panel, and can anticipate more serious consequences. I think we are unlikely to see another interview like the one with Posie. (Sorry, everyone.)

Again, I defer to MissLucyEyelesbarrow but my guess is he will be covered by crown indemnity. So if he screws up a patient's care he's insured for the costs of them suing him. That's part of the standard employment package for anyone employed by the NHS. But he won't be covered by crown indemnity for regulatory matters like this. He will pay additional indemnity for that. I do that, it's about £800 per year for me. He's just done the equivalent of losing his no claims bonus. I'm guessing he will be paying hundreds if not thousands a year more for that indemnity, because he's just become higher risk.

Point (2) - yes, to work as a GP in England, you have to be on what is now the National Performers' List (used to be local). Each area will have a group that assesses GPs and dentists about whom there are concerns. The Performance Group can suspend from the NPL independently of any MPTS suspension from the GMC register. This would make it impossible to work as a GP, though you could still work as a doctor, as long as still on the GMC register. As you say, he is bound to be suspended from the list, now that he has been suspended (subject to appeal) by MPTS. And, once he is reinstated onto the GMC register, he won't automatically be reinstated onto the NPL. The NPL can impose conditions of its own.

Point (4) GPs are now covered by NHS Resolution, which is effectively Crown Indemnity (technically they are not quite the same but let's not be pedantic). But, as you say, this doesn't cover regulatory issues or complaints. Cover through a Medical Defence Organisation (MDO), such as the MDU, is discretionary so, not only might it cost him a fortune - he might not be able to get cover at all. Although that no longer prevents a GP from working at all (as it did before GPs were covered by NHS Resolution), you would have to be very brave or very foolish to risk working without cover with the GMC already breathing down your neck. I imagine that his current MDO won't be getting much change out of £1 million for the case to date.

Datun · 30/11/2021 16:41

@RhymesWithOrange

I think this is a good outcome. Harrop was exposed as the stupid prat that he is but the sanction is not so draconian that it makes him a TRA martyr.

I agree.

It's the best possible outcome. A more lengthy suspension would have gilded his infamy.

It's the most effective result.

It stops him. That's what had to happen. He is now under the microscope, and must stop his public misogyny.

It's punishes him because he will never be free from this stain on his career and character.

And if any of the people who have egged him on to this scandalous outcome think that's a 'win'. then God only knows what they view as a loss. Their standards must be pretty low. Still, none of them are doctors, are they? They probably have no idea of the gravity of this.

My goodness. Suspended for deplorable behaviour and bringing the profession into disrepute.

That tide just keeps turning.

beastlyslumber · 30/11/2021 16:43

Wow I feel disappointed by the sanction but I understand the points pp are making about the impact on him. I also doubt that this is the last time women will have cause to complain about his conduct.

CompleteGinasaur · 30/11/2021 16:43

And apropos of all this, but most particularly MissLucys final point, wouldn't it be a lot more realistic for his fans to see this not as a vindication of his appalling conduct, but much more of a compliment to the skills of his barrister?

Datun · 30/11/2021 16:48

@Lovelyricepudding

It is a 'win' for his associates as it is less than we on here were hoping for. The impact on AH is irrelevant to them.

Yes, I think you're right 🙄. Getting one over on their perceived enemy is far more important to them, than the sanctions imposed on Harrop and the message that sends to everyone else practising his version of misogyny.

We appear to be far more important to their psyche, than they are to ours.

Timefortea4 · 30/11/2021 16:48

The GMC can be contacted at [email protected] with any complaints. Their Fitness to Practise includes the following "Maintaining Trust: Doctors must show respect for patients, treat patients and colleagues fairly and without discrimination".
Even patients that believe that biological sex is significant and immutable, I assume.

Bosky · 30/11/2021 16:57

Terfydactyl - "I am hoping and praying and got all my fingers crossed that my original statement isnt in the bundle. I'm sure I will find out pretty soon."

This is awful for the doxxed victims! As we know, this is unlikely to end here.

Jess de Wahl has just been on Sky saying that three years on she is still being harassed and has not been able to re-connect her phone due to constant malicious calls at all hours.

"Textile artist Jess de Wahls says cancel culture 'has to be a debate'"

I hope that at least some of the following info is helpful

GMC and NMC independent support

Have you raised concerns with the General Medical Council or Nursing and Midwifery Council, or are you a witness? If so, you’re able to access independent telephone support.

We understand that you’re probably going through a difficult time. Whether you think you’d benefit from confidential emotional support, or would prefer practical help and advice, our specially trained team would be happy to talk to you.

You can contact us any time – we’re open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Our telephone numbers are:

0300 303 3709 – if you’re in contact with the GMC

=============

VICTIM SUPPORT

Cyber crime and online fraud

The term cyber crime refers to a variety of crimes carried out online, using the internet through computers, laptops, tablets, internet-enabled televisions, games consoles and smart phones.

Cyber-enacted crimes can only be committed on the internet – stealing confidential information that’s stored online, for example. Other crimes which are carried out online, but could be committed without the use of the internet, such as sexual grooming, stalking or harassment, bullying, and financial or romance fraud, are called cyber-enabled crimes.

www.victimsupport.org.uk/crime-info/types-crime/cyber-crime/

There is also info on how to report cyber-crimes on that page.

If you want to report . . . stalking, harassment, or fears about sexual grooming, contact the police

That statement links to this page:
www.victimsupport.org.uk/crime-info/types-crime/stalking-and-harassment/

"As well as giving you emotional support to deal with the upset and trauma of this kind of crime, we can also give you practical help. This can include helping you to deal with the police if you decide to report incidents. We can also help with security measures in some cases."

More here:

Victim Support is here to help you whether you have spoken to the police, Action Fraud or decided not to report the crime. We will help you get your life back on track, and although we’re unable to financially compensate you for your loss, we can work to support you until you no longer need our help.

While most people are referred to us by the police or Action Fraud, anyone can contact us directly if they want to, and you don’t need to report a crime to the police to receive support from us. You can contact us by:

Contacting your local Victim Support team

Calling our Supportline for free on 08 08 16 89 111
Contacting us through our free 24/7 live chat service
Request support via our online form

Alternatively you can create a free account on My Support Space – an online resource containing interactive guides (including a guide on online crime) to help you manage the impact that crime has had on you.

www.victimsupport.org.uk/help-and-support/get-help/support-near-you/

Reporting a crime

If you’ve been a victim of crime, you’ll need to decide whether or not to tell the police.

It’s okay to feel unsure about this or worry about what will happen if you do. You might think that the police won’t care. Maybe you’ve had a bad experience with the police in the past. Or perhaps you’re worried that if you talk to the police, it will only make things worse.

If you decide to report to the police

There are positive reasons for reporting a crime. Remember that the police deal with all sorts of crime every day; they should treat everybody fairly and equally, and put your safety first.

If you report the crime, there’s more chance that the offender will be caught or brought to justice for what they’ve done. The police also keep records of all reported crime and this information goes into government statistics and reports. These can change the way crime is dealt with by the police and other parts of the criminal justice system.

If you do decide to report a crime to the police then you’ll automatically be put in touch with Victim Support. Remember that we’ll give you help and support whether you decide to involve the police or not.