Adults are wrong to criticise ‘woke’ children, says Benenden head

[Igneococcus]

Has she been stonewalled?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2c743ce4-4ae7-11ec-9bc6-5abf98655bc4?shareToken=126806d1cce5d3397e820e042ca98924

@ArabellaScott I suspect its the standing on street corners in school uniform without permission while not availing of the benefits their parents are paying for that is the problem.

Read their policies, the school has rules about not being where the girl is scheduled to be.
The search policy is if a girl is missing, from say leaving school grounds to protest, they should have a female and male search party not gender woman and gender man. We all know that is aout the sex of the staff.

The school is for daughters and has a strict unique uniform and all clothing must general meet a minimum standard. School has a right of veto and they can insist appropriate clothing (formal) to be worn off school grounds.
And yep hair dye is regulated plus hair bands etc.
I like the "if you flash while bending over..." 🤣

She talks about "woke" and "be kind" using the old meaning of social justice rather than demand for unquestioning obedience to the current social trend.

Children can't change the world as they don't have the economic power needed to make changes.
Her recommending that the daughters speak to their parents who will be in higher soceconomic groups and these parents need to listen is really the subtext which she and her contemporaries need to explore.

She speaks about gender while only having a tailored skirt as a uniform dress code option.

About sexual harassment while not listing sex as a protected characteristic.

I suspect that if there was a male employed by the school and transitioned, that that male would still be expected to partner up with a female member of staff for search parties.

B private schools are not irrelevant. They are the very tip of the iceberg in the type of society that exists in the UK. They are the breeding grounds for government and many agencies that hold huge impact on the country. But they are not and can never be 'woke'. If they were work, they'd have to immediately cancel themselves.

I disagree. We criticise woke-ness exactly because it supports and fails to consider or address exactly this sort of contradiction. Being woke is a mess of illogical thinking, thought-ending mantras, lack of critical thinking, and embedded privileges.

“Terfasaurus
Money won’t necessarily buy you an gender ideology free education or keep confused teenagers safe but it will keep biological males out of women’s spaces.“

In the case of the girl’s school you know about where there is a trans identified pupil, that would be a male body in the school at large at least. Do you mean that at this school the trans identified child has their own changing room and bedroom?

Ideologies are there to be criticized

Argument is part of education

Nothing should be exempted from it

@Lovelyricepudding

In primary ^

For sure most of the problems can't be fixed just by the schools, my point was that the class and poverty divides in the UK are appalling, unfair and damaging.

Capped at 18? I'm surprised by that. It has been some years since I was in Glasgow schools, admittedly. But our local school (Scotland, rural) has classes in the high 20s sometimes 30, although there is notionally a cap it isn't adhered to. And the PEF is spent on staff wages, for the most part.

Capped at 18 in deprived schools. At 33 elsewhere. PEF is extra so if staff wages then they are extra staff.

I disagree. We criticise woke-ness exactly because it supports and fails to consider or address exactly this sort of contradiction. Being woke is a mess of illogical thinking, thought-ending mantras, lack of critical thinking, and embedded privileges.

Yes I agree. That is why private schools cannot be woke. Ever. I don't see what it is that you disagree with exactly.

Shedmistress a private school is the natural home of the 'woke' because it dictates to others from a point of privilege which is what 'wokeness' does.

@Lovelyricepudding

Shedmistress a private school is the natural home of the 'woke' because it dictates to others from a point of privilege which is what 'wokeness' does.

I appreciate that is what 'woke' has become.

But if the staff and students really were woke, they would immediately give up this priviledge and offer it out to those who are currently in lesser jobs and/or schools, and if they don't, then they are not woke.

Therefore by existing in their current state, they cannot possibly be woke.

So does that mean noone who has had privilege in any form can't be woke? So no white people, Oxbridge or grammar educated, middle class people, anyone who hasn't struggled?

@Kikkomam

So does that mean noone who has had privilege in any form can't be woke? So no white people, Oxbridge or grammar educated, middle class people, anyone who hasn't struggled?

Are these people giving up this priviledge or enjoying it heartily whilst announcing publicly how woke they are?

@ScrollingLeaves the girls school I am talking about has a biological female pupil who identifies as a boy. They do not as far as I am aware, have separate facilities.

I think my main issue with this is that we are being told not to dismiss or mock teens, for their 'woke' opinions, while having our opinions routinely dismissed and mocked.

Many issues are obviously nuanced and merit discussion, and the double standard is infuriating

The discussions in the comments are far more informed and interesting than the article imo.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I mean, if you've never gone hungry and you've never been poor you can end up having quite skewed priorities. You can lose yourself in a dream of abstract principles unrelated to NHS waiting lists, electricity bills, and zero hours contracts.

YY. It's very easy to make lofty pronouncements about being "inclusive" with other women's rights when you're never likely to end up in a refuge or women's prison, and have never wanted for anything.

Yes.

Reminiscent of the ultra woke Goldsmith students who thought they would go and lecture Southall Black Sisters.

I appreciate that is what 'woke' has become.

I don't think it has ever really been anything different. But in any case that is what it is now.

@Lovelyricepudding

But these ideas aren't originating with the kids, they are being taught them. So what she is actually saying is 'you shouldn't disagree with me when I indoctrinate children in my care with a harmful ideology'.

This. Parents should 'vote with their feet' and not pay £40k for this indoctrination. Her comment about times have changed and parents need to keep up, was similar to the drama student 'lecturing' Robert Winston on Question Time that biology had changed these days! Life experience counts for an awful lot including the ability to see shades of grey rather than black and white.

@Lovelyricepudding

I appreciate that is what 'woke' has become.

I don't think it has ever really been anything different. But in any case that is what it is now.

Perhaps google the origination of the term 'woke'?

It certainly did not originate in the private schools of England.

Are these people giving up this priviledge or enjoying it heartily whilst announcing publicly how woke they are?

They won't have to give up their privilege. The research and data from countries like US (analysis of the affirmation programs) and countries with recent educational reforms (Poland - happened ~15 years ago, now reversed) shows that it is the lower middle class that looses, not those at the top of social structure. People with money will always find a way to make sure their children have the best opportunities, going way beyond what educational system can offer, especially in a system that values extra-curriculars in university admissions. Giving a leverage to poorer/minority children usually results in people in the lower middle class being squeezed out, rich retaining their privilege and poor gaining a chunk of what used to be lower middle-class space.

I am not trying to argue what is and what is not fair, just trying to make a point that those most privileged seldom if ever feel the effect of the reforms aimed at improving social mobility.

'Plenty of kids at state school have never gone hungry or been poor btw'
Exactly, the post-1945 welfare state would have been a massive failure if this were not true. Are we really aspiring to everyone having to experience poverty and hunger and never own their own home? Even Conservative Macmillan in the 1950s campaigned on 'You've never had it so good' (I wasn't alive then but rationing ending was important apparently). Tony Blair realised that most people aspire to better themselves, so you have to think 2 tax brackets ahead with your rates.

One of the issues for the Labour Party is that when your historic core vote has achieved greater prosperity, they consider voting to keep their newly-acquired prosperity. I don't think there is a solution to this, as we all know from recent history that communism never works and freedom is a better option.
Some of us will keep voting against our narrow short-term economic interest for the greater good for many decades maybe but when our hard-won sex-based rights are also being undermined, the switch from centre-left to centre-right is inevitable.
Back to thread topic: I would not want to pay high school fees for my kids to be indoctrinated in 'ideology' of any kind. Let children be children for goodness sake.

Perhaps google the origination of the term 'woke'? It certainly did not originate in the private schools of England

Quite.

I think my main issue with this is that we are being told not to dismiss or mock teens, for their 'woke' opinions, while having our opinions routinely dismissed and mocked

Are you at a girls private school? If not then she doesn't have to speak for you. You have other groups to do that for you

Thanks, Lovelyrice, for info on class sizes etc.

@Kikkomam

I think my main issue with this is that we are being told not to dismiss or mock teens, for their 'woke' opinions, while having our opinions routinely dismissed and mocked

Are you at a girls private school? If not then she doesn't have to speak for you. You have other groups to do that for you

She is telling parents to back off from retaliating against the march of gender ideology by pretending that if they do that, it will make their daughters less likely to support equality or sustainability.

As if gender idology equals equality when in fact it is the opposite. For women and girls, at least.

@Kikkomam

I think my main issue with this is that we are being told not to dismiss or mock teens, for their 'woke' opinions, while having our opinions routinely dismissed and mocked

Are you at a girls private school? If not then she doesn't have to speak for you. You have other groups to do that for you

...,Yes DD is at a girls private school, thankfully run by a wonderful head who's mission has always been to be install the girls with belief that they can do anything they put their minds to it, so I do have an interest in this.

My point was actually on a more general level, it is extremely common for a GC opinion / more traditional views to be dismissed without discussion and often mocked, even though a discussion is all that is sought.