Not sure of my purpose in posting - just my head is spinning!

[LilithRises]

I'm feeling really upset, angry and horrified. I've only recently been following the cases of Angela Bailey, Kathleen Stock, Keira Bell etc (i've came to the debate late). I feel like scales have slipped from my eyes and the antics of SW have shocked me profoundly. I've been reading about the harm and risks involved in medical transitioning and how there seems to be a psychic contagion (amongst vulnerable girls with various complex issues) to transition and that terrible harm is being done. I've learnt that Stonewall have redefined the concept of homosexuality to same gender rather than same sex attraction. I feel like i've fallen down a mad rabbit-hole. I cant get my head around it.

@Waitwhat23

Ah, I see the Misognistic Monitors have been by - they are not very fond of the word rhyming with skulk you used in a pp (as accurate as it might be) *@DoubleTweenQueen*.

Yes. Noted.

Not an attractive move.

There's a reason proponents of this ideology target children in schools so relentlessly. The Observer newspaper leader (Dec 2020) commented:
Any questioning of the gender-affirming model – and the role that trauma, internalised hostility to same-sex attraction or misleading online material may play in gender dysphoria in teenagers – is dismissed as transphobic. This is a chilling state of affairs that is detrimental to child safety....Children are not pawns to be deployed in adult debates about identity .

Welcome, Lilith. We've all been where you are now.

Can't resist posting this classic.

@Phobiaphobic

Can't resist posting this classic.

I love that meme. It's so accurate. 😂

@LemonSwan

EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn

To the power of the exponential tag team

🍷

Also, stickering can be pretty cathartic. My top tip for that is to look as much like a boring middle-aged woman as possible while doing it.

And if you can go public, talk to people. Share articles on social. I normally share the link and in the post / tweet, quote a bit of it with a couple of lines explaining the context and why this is an issue, then even if someone doesn’t click on the link they’ve still hopefully read my post. You might think nobody’s paying attention, but then you’ll get a like or a private message or an email, or someone will say ‘I saw what you said, I had no idea about that.’

If you can’t go public, a couple of quid to a crowdfunder, a thank you card or appreciative email to an MP or peer who’s sticking their neck out for us - it all builds up.

And one of the best pieces of advice I saw recently is not to waste energy in arguments on Twitter with people who have hardly any followers!

Not read the full thread yet, and very sad and angry (yet again) at what Girl guiding UK seem to be doing to a movement that is actually carried out by their volunteers who get apparently no say in head office policy… which seems like a serious issue for the charity commission.

Was just coming on to add to the excellent list gathering here: Sex Matters is a great place to start for campaigning sex-matters.org/about/

See also LGB Alliance.

Changing the law for the whole UK (and informing everyone in the devolved and Westminster Parliaments, so that they have to take responsibility for this issue… which will be like painting the Forth Bridge) feels like the single most effective practical thing we can do to safeguard women and children of both sexes, and is essential whatever anyone’s interest in gender identity or not.

It is is essential that the law and policy is based in reality, reality is we all have a sexed body. Ignoring reality harms women and children way more than men because we still live in patriarchy. Gender is a trap.

I’d also recommend Posie Parker’s and PeachYoghurt Genderfree’s YouTubes (latter has the link to the Swedish doc Transtrain which is essential viewing re the heartbreaking situation for detransitioned young people.)

Phobia

Just dropped in to say hi and welcome @LilithRises and I love your name :)

doh! pressed post too early!

Kathleen Stock said recently that "it was the defining moment of my life" or something similar. Also that she "hadn't lost my voice, like so many women I know" - paraphrasing from me. But it matters on a personal level to stand up for essential and fundamental truth. If we can be convinced that men are women, we can be convinced of anything. I understand why many women cannot speak up. I have had several friends look this directly in the eye and then look away. I find that quite hard to fathom. It takes courage not to. Welcome to mumsnet feminism (not the fun kind) - home of the brave!

Welcome Op. My suggestion is to take action, even if events are pressing, even if a submission isn't that great, or a letter that good. The action itself is empowering and you will be adding to the numbers.

I wish I had found MN much earlier. There seemed to be no safe place when I became aware and it wasn't until Janice Turner pointed to this site that I actually found a community that had real knowledge and knew how to put it down.

I wish I had found MN much earlier. There seemed to be no safe place when I became aware and it wasn't until Janice Turner pointed to this site that I actually found a community that had real knowledge and knew how to put it down.

This is a wonderful space but it’s really important to remember that it’s not ‘safe’. It’s public, and the Misogynist Monitors on Twitter frequently screenshot posts, report things they don’t like and send trolls in.

It’s massively important that we all stay here & keep posting. But it’s equally important to be careful and never to share details of other online or real-life groups, or your personal details, even in PMs, because you can never be sure who’s reading them.

@DoubleTweenQueen

I can’t remember what your deleted post contained, but I have it stuck in my head that someone posted on a thread I was on about school socially transitioning their child without their knowledge just yesterday, and now can’t find it.

If that was you, see this thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4408895-Chair-of-WPATH-Child-and-Adolescent-Committee-says-schools-should-not-socially-transition-without-parental-involvement

They asked Kathleen Stock in the Triggonomertry interview if she had ever thought of keeping her head down for a quiet life. Her reply was (roughly) that yes, she had, but had concluded that she couldnt say or believe things that were demonstrably untrue. Probably all the other sheros, Forstater, Bailey, Rowling etc, have had those moments. We are not all as brave (or perhaps influential) as them, but in our own way we can help each other to keep going. And use this board (1) for information and (2) for a bit of a boost when it gets hard. The quality of information and debate on here is mostly pretty high - many posters much better informed than I am so a place to learn as well. As many have already said - you are not on your own.

[quote RedCarpetRebellion]@DoubleTweenQueen

I can’t remember what your deleted post contained, but I have it stuck in my head that someone posted on a thread I was on about school socially transitioning their child without their knowledge just yesterday, and now can’t find it.

If that was you, see this thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4408895-Chair-of-WPATH-Child-and-Adolescent-Committee-says-schools-should-not-socially-transition-without-parental-involvement[/quote]
I said it was as though my dd was in the hands of a cult.

Thanks for your kind input and pointers - am reading and following.

Have reached out to Bayswater Support, and will contact SSA

First, meeting with school to try and find out what the situation actually is and for how long (!)

@EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn

I wish I had found MN much earlier. There seemed to be no safe place when I became aware and it wasn't until Janice Turner pointed to this site that I actually found a community that had real knowledge and knew how to put it down.

This is a wonderful space but it’s really important to remember that it’s not ‘safe’. It’s public, and the Misogynist Monitors on Twitter frequently screenshot posts, report things they don’t like and send trolls in.

It’s massively important that we all stay here & keep posting. But it’s equally important to be careful and never to share details of other online or real-life groups, or your personal details, even in PMs, because you can never be sure who’s reading them.

Yes - this totally @Empressaurus and @highame I thought you had been here ages

Welcome, new people. TalkingInTheDarkToLangClegg has given great info and advice her, well, everyone has. That's the beauty of this place!

This is a great quote from Datun (hope she doesn't mindif I put it here) about the single space problem, sums it up nicely - It's not about a minority of people taking advantage. It's about every single predator in the country being able to take advantage.

IME it's the topic most people are aware of in the early stages of scales falling. Sometimes, once you've dealt with that I've often found they do the rest themselves.

@Fariha31

I first noticed something was up about 2016 but it took me a while to really take it in. I suppose I kept thinking it was just in one arena and was probably some mistake or I had misunderstood somehow and someone would be along soon to be the adult and clear up any nonesense, but then it kept coming up in other areas too, its like those dreams you have where you notice a cockroach or shard of glass or something and its only one but then you notice another and another and then there everywhere. Its a weird experiance. I never in my life thought I would live through something so out there as what is going on now.

This resonates so much with me. I think this issue has really shaken my belief in people's ability to see common sense, or think rationally, not to mention those in power being willing to do the right thing (I know lot's of you will roll your eyes at my naiveté).

I can't get my head around how politicians and heads of organisations have gone along with this. Either they haven't thought it through properly, which means they aren;'t doing their job, or even scarier - they have thought it through and just don't care about the consequences for women (looking at the IOC). How dare they do this to us?

Every time another ridiculous thing comes along I keep thinking this will be the thing that makes people wake up and see, or stand up and shout.
Or even makes those in power acknowledge that Self ID is problematic. But I guess they want to save face, or don't want to admit they were misled, or they just think women aren't worth the effort .

@Leafstamp

I don’t understand the problem with the word cult, given that one meaning is as follows:

a person or thing that is popular or fashionable among a particular group or section of society.

This board is really heavily moderated, which is very frustrating. A board for women's rights, and we are not allowed to openly discuss things that are negatively affecting women .

Apparently the truth hurts some special people's feelings, and that's more important than women's safety. Or something.

@CreepingDeath

I can’t get over how TEACHERS have gone along with this.

The very people trained to safeguard children pushing this contagion.

[quote RedCarpetRebellion]@CreepingDeath

I can’t get over how TEACHERS have gone along with this.

The very people trained to safeguard children pushing this contagion.[/quote]
Lots of people find this possibly the hardest part : the impact on children and young people.

Young, vulnerable girls (usually) and boys being sucked into this harmful ideology.

All of the Nolan Investigates Stonewall podcasts are worth a listen, but any parent or person at all connected to young people should listen to Episode 5 with Dr David Bell and Keira Bell (no relation).

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4374853-nolan-investigates-stonewall

Transcripts here: fairplayforwomen.com/nolan-investigates-stonewall-1/

There's a lot to take in. Magdalen Berns on YouTube spells it out. If you're on Twitter @WomensRightsNet is where you can meet people like you locally

Apparently the truth hurts some special people's feelings, and that's more important than women's safety. Or something.

They also dislike the use of a word starting with p and rhyming with beak in this context.

Oh yes @EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn

Reaching the top of that mountain is a place they really don’t was us to get to.

All we can hope for is to pique interest I guess.