#MarchWithMidwives and the erasure of 'mothers' and 'women'

[AnotherEmma]

I've been following the #MarchWithMidwives campaign because I support it. The crisis in maternity services is a disgrace. Midwives, mothers and babies deserve better.

The problem is, it's brought back all the same concerns I had throughout 2020 (when I was pregnant with DC2, gave birth and then breastfeeding). I was following my local maternity services, doulas etc on Facebook and the language was full of gender neutral shite.

Now we have a campaign which is (or should be) about the care and safety of MOTHERS, women and their babies, and the words mother and woman are fucking nowhere to be seen.

It's all "birthing families" (um pretty sure it was me who gave birth and not my family), "parents" and... my personal favourite: "service users".

JUST FUCK OFF.

I can't even challenge it because I know I'll be accused of being a TERF and derailing the main point of the campaign.

I don't suppose anyone has come across a well argued article or blog post about this, by any chance?! Because I'm too pissed off to be eloquent on the subject!

It's a frustrating example of throwing the baby out with the bathwater

Have you noticed if the talk about 'black/brown mothers' while also saying 'birthing/pregnant people'? I haven't tried to join as I'm a known 'turf/spigot/zina/'fobe to a few of their admins.

While I'm here: Try following With Woman on FB / twitter / website

Yeah, a (male) FB friend of mine is all into this and is posting about "birthing families" which is really really annoying me -- as a currently actually pregnant woman.

On the upside, I know that references to "chestfeeding" and "birthing bodies" tipped another friend over the edge last year, so this campaign is probably bringing lots of much needed sunlight.

I wonder if we're friends IRL

I wonder why they dont just black and brown birthing people? Is that because it really highlights how dehumanizing the language is to women and how it could be construed as racist to refer to black or brown women as birthing people. It really is just horrible. Why cant they say mothers and transgender men . Though you are talking about what 20 people who this might apply to in reality

"I wonder why they dont just black and brown birthing people? Is that because it really highlights how dehumanizing the language is to women and how it could be construed as racist to refer to black or brown women as birthing people."

Yes I think that's exactly why.

Can't dehumanise black women because that's racist.
Can dehumanise white women though, that's fine!

Can't come up with an articulate argument for you, as I'm fucking raging about this, and especially the responses to women's concerns on the March with Midwives thread on here. Maybe the lack of mention of babies is because it's a non inclusive word (doesn't include puppies or kittens for example - yes, I know that's ridiculous, but so is the whole thing!) and they can't think of a mangled language alternative. Birthed living organism, maybe? Completely non emotive and neutral - would suit everyone, don't you reckon? Oh, well, not the MOTHERS and WOMEN, but then we don't count any more. Arrrrggggghhhhh!!!

Sorry, I asked for my 12.21 post to be deleted as I accidentally posted it on this thread instead of the main MarchWithMidwives thread (which it refers to). It was a detailed look at the language used in the post and I pointed out that they didn't use 'women' or 'babies' at all

@drum123
LOL at puppies at kittens 🤣
I'm glad I'm not the only one raging!

@AnotherEmma omg, we actually could be!

Hi. I know!! There is this amazing group of mostly midwives who are written some good stuff on this. www.facebook.com/WeAreWithWoman and they seem to be connected to this blog too about the same issue.
with-woman.org/2021/07/11/why-we-are-with-woman/

Refreshing to read!

Thanks for sharing Kezia! I'd come across the organisation but hadn't read that statement, which is fantastic. A breath of fresh air to read

That looks good Kezia - thank you.

I am also very angry!

Does anyone know how many trans men give birth each year? Do we have any data on it?

Can't be many.

Alienating all women who give birth for the sake of what could be a handful of people.

Has anyone asked trans men who have given birth if they object to gendered (ie correct) language being used. I can't imagine it's high up their list of priorities.

One of the transmen who has given birth is Freddie McConnell. As he is a pet Guardian journalist quite keen on self-publicity I think he is worth the equivalent of about 500 pregnant women. Otherwise, I would bet the number of other transmen who have given birth has got to be well under 20 across the UK, but go on, prove me wrong!

I hate it when couples announce “we are pregnant” no you are not, the woman is pregnant you are expecting a baby together.

I'd have thought it'd also be inclusive to lesbian couples as well, if they're both mum, only one would actually be giving birth so it includes them too?
Also trans men.
I'd still be mum and in the so called traditional way too - including others as well doesn't affect me so can't get too worked up about it.

Yes lesbian couples as well only one would give birth

Can't come up with an articulate argument for you, as I'm fucking raging about this, and especially the responses to women's concerns on the March with Midwives thread on here.

Yes, it's a strange, to say the least, tactic asking people to support your cause then insulting them, becoming defensive and refusing point blank to listen to them.

@Malibuismysecrethome

Yes lesbian couples as well only one would give birth

And so what? They are no more a "birthing family" than a heterosexual couple.

There'd be two mums though - why only call one mum?
'' you're only mum if you're giving birth '' excludes the other, surely?
This way would include both as mum

@NoNotMeNoSiree

There'd be two mums though - why only call one mum? '' you're only mum if you're giving birth '' excludes the other, surely? This way would include both as mum

Literally no-one has said that the mother who doesn't give birth can't be called the mother.

We are all saying that mothers who do give birth should be called mothers and women, not parents and people.

This ^

On the same note, I've recently hired a doula. I made sure the words 'women' and 'mother' were used on her website before paying the £xxxx amount. All good.

After paying, I received a lot of member only resources, and what do I find? A course on "Breast/Chest feeding"

FUCK SAKE.