#MarchWithMidwives and the erasure of 'mothers' and 'women'

[AnotherEmma]

I've been following the #MarchWithMidwives campaign because I support it. The crisis in maternity services is a disgrace. Midwives, mothers and babies deserve better.

The problem is, it's brought back all the same concerns I had throughout 2020 (when I was pregnant with DC2, gave birth and then breastfeeding). I was following my local maternity services, doulas etc on Facebook and the language was full of gender neutral shite.

Now we have a campaign which is (or should be) about the care and safety of MOTHERS, women and their babies, and the words mother and woman are fucking nowhere to be seen.

It's all "birthing families" (um pretty sure it was me who gave birth and not my family), "parents" and... my personal favourite: "service users".

JUST FUCK OFF.

I can't even challenge it because I know I'll be accused of being a TERF and derailing the main point of the campaign.

I don't suppose anyone has come across a well argued article or blog post about this, by any chance?! Because I'm too pissed off to be eloquent on the subject!

@NoNotMeNoSiree - because only women give birth. Because all women who give birth are mothers. As Freddie McConnell has repeatedly been told by the courts.

Or should we just ignore trans men?

It's nothing to do with transmen.

Anyone, particularly someone who works in maternity services, should absolutely know that a handful of women could never hope in a zillion years to affect policy change on this scale in such a short space of time. People simply don't listen to women.

It's not about being kind to a handful of women with identity issues. You could do that at the coalface, quite easily.

It's about a concerted effort to remove the definition of the word woman from having anything to do with her biology. In order that men can claim the word woman.

No man can ever be a woman, if a woman is defined as adult human female of or denoting the sex who bears eggs.

The word woman has to become a social concept, in order that it can be claimed by males.

Which is why actual women are reduced to being called cervix havers, menstruators and birthing people, whilst simultaneously being told that not every woman has a cervix, meantruates, or gives birth!

The biology has to be completely decoupled from the word woman.

Women who support this are colluding, albeit often inadvertently, in their own rights erasure under the mistaken apprehension that they are being kind to other women.

They're not. They need to look a little deeper.

in their own rights erasure
My rights aren't being taken away from me just because trans people are wanting to keep theirs.

@Datun

Nicely worded post.

It's true, women are encouraging trans people because women like being kind. But in doing so, they are unwittingly participating in the erasure of the whole concept of 'woman'.

‘Birthing person’ puts me in mind of ‘birthing cow’

As an aside is there any other group of people (other than women) being forced to accept terms used to describe themselves that they find profoundly offensive?

@NoNotMeNoSiree

in their own rights erasure My rights aren't being taken away from me just because trans people are wanting to keep theirs.

And what rights is the use of the word woman and mother accurately taking away from trans people?

I recently downloaded a menopause app. I deleted it when I realised that "people" was being used instead of women. If they can't even name the 50% of the population this affects then I would not feel confident using it.

Just to add to Datun's excellent post, the other group of men who have a vested interest in changing language around motherhood and giving birth are men who pay women to gestate and give birth to a child for them. They aren't keen on the word mother either.

I find it as insulting to be called a ‘birthing person’ as I would be to be called a ‘n*er’. It doesn’t matter what other good you may do (and midwives do a lot of good) there is just no way I can get past such disrespect in order to support them.

@Clymene

Just to add to Datun's excellent post, the other group of men who have a vested interest in changing language around motherhood and giving birth are men who pay women to gestate and give birth to a child for them. They aren't keen on the word mother either.

I've seen "gestational carrier"

@Clymene

Just to add to Datun's excellent post, the other group of men who have a vested interest in changing language around motherhood and giving birth are men who pay women to gestate and give birth to a child for them. They aren't keen on the word mother either.

Yes and it doesn't take much thinking to work out why, where that will lead and what the endgame is.

@NoNotMeNoSiree

in their own rights erasure My rights aren't being taken away from me just because trans people are wanting to keep theirs.

Trans ideology removes the rights of women to privacy, safety and dignity.

You can argue until the cows come home that it doesn't, but when convicted rapists are being given access to incarcerated women as part of their sentence, you're on a hiding to nothing.

The word woman, like the word mother is already taken. They are not up for grabs by men.

The term mother has a legal status. It interacts with quite a few other laws including, I believe, the Children's Act. It is not a social definition. Neither is the word woman.

Your rights to a female only rape refuge, a female only homeless shelter, a female doing your mammogram, or your smear test, or competing on, or against, a female only team are all being taken away from you.

We already have MPs claiming they see nothing wrong with a parliament made up of 50% men, and 50% men who identify as women. Diversity box, ticked.

Honestly, just think for a second. Who do you think is benefiting from this?

Because it's sure as shit isn't women.

Your rights to a female only rape refuge, a female only homeless shelter, a female doing your mammogram, or your smear test, or competing on, or against, a female only team are all being taken away from you.

We already have MPs claiming they see nothing wrong with a parliament made up of 50% men, and 50% men who identify as women. Diversity box, ticked.

Honestly, just think for a second. Who do you think is benefiting from this?

Because it's sure as shit isn't women.

Perfectly put.

@Clymene

Just to add to Datun's excellent post, the other group of men who have a vested interest in changing language around motherhood and giving birth are men who pay women to gestate and give birth to a child for them. They aren't keen on the word mother either.

Yes indeed.

None of this benefits women.

The thing is, it's so bloody evident, I don't know how anyone could even think otherwise.

None of this benefits women.

The thing is, it's so bloody evident, I don't know how anyone could even think otherwise.

Me neither Datun, I give people the benefit of the doubt that they do actually possess a level of intelligence, reasoning and critical thinking skills and then they come out with trite nonsense such as this My rights aren't being taken away from me just because trans people are wanting to keep theirs

When I first saw the term "birthing body" it sent a chill down my spine and made me think of the reproductive experiments conducted on Jewish and Roma women during the Holocaust. And of course the treatment of female slaves as brood mares by plantation owners. Incredibly dehumanising.

thepiratequeen I've just checked mine, which is a good app by a famous menopause doctor - doesn't mention women at all. Skilfully avoids the word and there is the occasional "people".

I'm gutted.

All I can think is that some women have such internalised misogyny along with a 'be kind' narrative that they truly can't see it. It's weird how 'be kind' doesn't apply to other women who have a different point of view.

Like many women who have given birth, my experience of midwives has gone from the blissful to the downright should be struck off tomorrow.

I can't help feeling that the total lack of respect and care for so many women in labour and post-partum and the attitudes shown on this thread are connected.

When I first saw the term "birthing body"

I first saw it when an article referred to "black birthing bodies" which is hideous.

@RedDogsBeg

None of this benefits women.

The thing is, it's so bloody evident, I don't know how anyone could even think otherwise.

Me neither Datun, I give people the benefit of the doubt that they do actually possess a level of intelligence, reasoning and critical thinking skills and then they come out with trite nonsense such as this My rights aren't being taken away from me just because trans people are wanting to keep theirs

I know! I can understand TRAs doing it. But people who aren't invested either way? I don't get it.

Our rights are self fucking evidently being taken away. How else does one explain rapists in women's prisons and women having to compete against men in their own sport? I can't imagine why women would accept that they are bigoted for wanting a woman to handle their breasts during a mammogram.

Or, heaven fucking forbid, an entire parliament made up of men, half of whom say they're not.

I'll never, ever forget, nor forgive, women who throw their entire sex under the fucking bus

The thing is issues to do with maternity care and midwifery are overlooked and not valued precisely BECAUSE they effect women

@phonetica

The thing is issues to do with maternity care and midwifery are overlooked and not valued precisely BECAUSE they effect women

Exactly. If you wont see sex, you can't see sexism.

And midwives and doulas fucking know this. They know it down to their soul.

I think the disconnect must come because they do not view men who say they are women as men. That's where the disconnect is.

They need to ask themselves why they don't. Really, really ask.

Why are these organisations bowing to self ID like this when the law is specific about gender recognition certificates?
It's completely absurd that sex specific services like health services are erasing women when there is no law that makes them.

I don't know any woman who would be unkind to transwomen with a GRC, but self ID in a gender fluid framework? It's way too dangerous to contemplate.

The ones asking us to be kind are actually asking us to be blind to what is happening to women in their name.

Datun, phonetica, YNK, SheldonesquetheBstard

I agree with everything you have written, but especially this from Datun sums up my feelings:

I'll never, ever forget, nor forgive, women who throw their entire sex under the fucking bus