TT Exulansic Youtube

[Fleek]

I've been watching TT Exulansic's videos on YouTube having seen a link to them on here. I have learnt so much - what she is sharing is so necessary in terms of this debate. I'm also finding them really upsetting. I'm so shocked by what I've seen and just wanted to talk about them here. If you haven't watched any yet, please do.

I have a condition which has meant having plastic surgery to make my body look more 'normal'. I've had multiple, very painful surgeries which have left me in a degree of chronic pain but ultimately, I have achieved my goal in that I now have a much more normal looking body which it is easier to go through life with. These surgeries have had a clear medical benefit beyond my appearance being changed, just to be clear. I have a medical condition which has objective markers. There is evidence having gone through these surgeries, I will now have better physical health in my old age and will be less likely to experience certain complications which the condition can end up causing so the benefits definitely aren't just cosmetic - it's just the cosmetic benefits meant a lot to me as a patient. My body was 'wrong' and that was badly affecting my mental health and so I've put myself through a lot to make it look 'right.'

So there I am with having gone through this journey and so I think watching these videos on YT feels that little bit more personal in some ways, even though I don't have gender dysphoria and my surgeries were completely different. I knew already that things like constructing a 'penis' out of someone's arm was utterly barbaric and had a high failure rate and I knew there could be complications with attempting to construct a vagina. I just had no idea how frequently there were complications and how dangerous this journey is. I suddenly have the view that it must be almost impossible to go through them safely - at the very least you are risking fissures and strictures and those can lead to serious complications. Just taking testosterone is likely to lead to heart damage, too. There are going to be so many people who go through these operations and who die prematurely because they end up with sepsis or other infections.

I just watched the latest video on Jazz. I felt sick to my stomach at that one in particular. How has this poor kid got any kind of future? Jazz is severely depressed, 150 pounds overweight, has no sexual functioning at all, has already experienced multiple surgeries and complications and is likely to experience more. It's a crime to be doing this to vulnerable young people. If Jazz hadn't had these surgeries, we'd be looking at a young man embarking on a degree at Harvard, perhaps at the beginning of a journey where he felt comfortable with his sex and his sexuality. He'd be out having fun. My surgeries were so incredibly tough but on balance, they were worth it and while I'm in pain here and there, I don't have any additional complications which will actually threaten my life. That isn't the case with trans surgeries. Surgeons are literally butchering healthy bodies. They must know they are. How have things been allowed to go in this direction? (I know the answer to that really)

Yes eugenics is the word I have on my mind. I did that particular test for other reasons due to miscarriages and being over 40; I had a limited knowledge of what it actually tested. And I had mixed feelings. I turned down all tests for my first child.

Exulansic uses the theoretical possibility that CAIS results in "masculinised behaviour" as an argument to exclude people with CAIS from women's spaces, ie. on Safeguarding grounds

What is "masculinised behaviour?" This particular point; to me is concerning. A very few children I teach who have autism or have had extremely poor starts in life and so have difficulties with emotional regulation and attachment. That includes xx girls. Who at y6 can be larger and taller and heavier that me.

These arguments, if that's what they're saying, are beyond bonkers and disgusting.

@ClareCAIS

And all this talk of prenatal testing is starting to feel all a bit eugenics - those of us with CAIS are healthy & live full lives, it is no barrier to a good life if you have the right support

Why did you take that angle? Pointing out that CAIS will be picked up on a combination of NIPT and 20 week USS is in no way dictating what should be done with that information, just that the information will be found. It’s not an attack, or “eugenics” just a statement of fact.

FWIW, I cannot imagine anyone doing anything about it or being counselled with anything other than the facts. As NIPT becomes more widely available and likely offered free to all, that’s the reality.

I feel it's this, wider background conversation plus nipt. I did choose the test for health information. There are wider ethical discussions around it that have been going on for years which this conversation is a part of. One of the arguments against the test being on nhs were due to sex selection.

Using nipt in The conversation that's been going on that Ex started and the ideas that seems to be being outlined by them, are the problem.

The nipt is useful for a wide range of health information if properly used.

[quote ClareCAIS]@NotBadConsidering would you choose to have this test if you knew people were advocating for babies with CAIS to be labelled as disabled men, so that they can be segregated from both male & female spaces?[/quote]
I would choose to have the test to screen for trisomies 13, 17 and 21. I would also advocate for good counselling to advise it can pick up other conditions too. I would not base my decision to have it or not have it based on how other people were deciding to use the information.

Like it not, with the advent of NIPT, CAIS is being screened for.

It was only when I got those results that I realised dsds were also being screened for. I could choose to know sex in a private scan clinic. I'm v nosy and impatient and wanted to know the sex of my baby, after health. I later found the hospital hpcs were very pro the test.

The nipt test is done from 9/10 weeks gestation. In many respects on the nhs I feel the information is better controlled and handled. At the same time, such a test can be misused.

Like it not, with the advent of NIPT, CAIS is being screened for

I had a NIPT about 8 years ago when I was pregnant with my 4th DC. It was new, expensive (I’m in Australia). Now it’s relatively inexpensive and seems fairly ubiquitous. I agree that counselling about CAIS (and other DSDs like 5 alpha reductase deficiency) will increasingly be done Antenatally, when the chromosomes don’t seem to align with the genitalia.

I chose to have the test because I would have terminated for the trisomies it tests for.

@ClareCAIS

This is now becoming even more sickening - Exulansic is now attacking a children’s DSD charity for including information about treatments for vaginal agenesis, which is mostly commonly needed for women with MRKH.

There are now many youth ambassadors for MRKH talking about their experiences of using dilators, to normalise the experience for other young girls - and talking about them in this way is just horrific

These girls are often terrified about sex & relationships & receive no sex education that includes their biological difference - I am truly appalled at this

Why are you so obsessed with what this one person is saying?

Is it because you genuinely fear that one GC feminist and her 2,000 subscribers are going to radicalise the world into a hateful anti-DSD hellscape?

Is it that you think that GC feminists are massively concerned about the issue of people with DSDs and are desperate to have long conversations on a niche issue we're not really qualified to talk in depth about? Are you trying to derail a thread about a great GC voice because a small proportion of her content is poor (in which case it seems to me like it DSD vs GC and I'm going to side with the vast majority not the tiny minority if that's the battle)? Is your concern that people with DSDs will see the content and get upset (in which case I feel that there's loads more dangerous stuff on the net to worry about)?

And to be clear, my take is that some of her content is poor - but I don;t think it's bad or hateful and I think that there is a place for straight talking - this whole women vs trans rights issues is full of nonsense (trans women who are not women, neo-vaginas that are not vaginas) etc etc and straight talking is needed.

This thread has convinced me of two things. Firstly, that a simple XX = woman approach lacks the nuance needed. Secondly that it lacks the compassion needed.

But beyond that I am seeing you being quite disingenuous and attacking someone that I have massive amounts of time for who is doing a lot of good. When this debate is about compassionate people who are GC and know this has nothing to do with DSDs, and people who are TRAs and deliberately muddy the waters and drag DSDs into it I am far from sure that attacking the former sides heroes is the best strategy. Tell me where she is a little misguided and lacking in compassion and I will listen - make out she is the devil incarnate and you look crazy, IMO.

You have repeatedly ignored quite a lot of questions (such as "how would you define woman to ensure that men can be excluded but people like you can be treated with all the compassion and respect that you want?") If you can;t answer that then I have a lot of sympathy with the "XX, get lost everyone else" approach.

Things should be able to to be said with blunt clarity and withstand scrutiny.

I suppose to sum up my position.

A woman is an adult human female with XX chromosomes. Women's rights need protecting from men.

BUT... DSDs exist, and there is a conversation to be had about how some people with DSDs who pass the normal "woman test" might need excluding from women's spaces and vice versa. This conversation is irrelevant to most people who are GC, because the numbers are so tiny and it is a complete distraction from the issue - men in women's spaces. DSD charities need to pick a side (TRA vs GC) and use their infinitely greater knowledge to come up with solutions that withstand scrutiny and ensure that they are treated as fairly as possible within the context of what their side wants. Screening for CAIS and whether it should be done is really getting off topic for this thread and this board IMHO.

DSD charities need to pick a side (TRA vs GC)

Idea of "Sides" are an underlying issue here. There aren't "sides".

@WarriorN

DSD charities need to pick a side (TRA vs GC)

Idea of "Sides" are an underlying issue here. There aren't "sides".

How do you justify there not being two sides?

@WarriorN

DSD charities need to pick a side (TRA vs GC)

Idea of "Sides" are an underlying issue here. There aren't "sides".

Clare and others have repeatedly stated that they want to left out of such discussions.

VSD charities and support groups have no obligation to accede to the wishes of people outside their communities and pick sides. They might not present as a monolith on some issues. And that's fine and entirely a matter for the people at the heart of this.

Perhaps they don;t need to pick a side - especially if they don;t give a shit about women.

They should, however, consider their likely legal position should either side win?

Presumably if GC women win then someone with CAIS will be banned from women's spaces, or will be allowed in as a very particular exception (the latter more likely). Surely it is for DSD charities to come up with definitions and plans to ensure that they get the support they need whilst women are drawing a firm boundery.

Presumably if TRAs win then people with CAIS are fucked full stop, because there will be no women's spaces to access? Unless, of course, people with CAIS are happy in women's spaces with men who identify as women, which IMHO rather undermines the argument that people with CAIS are women.

Also, if "VSD charities and support groups have no obligation to accede to the wishes of people outside their communities and pick sides." then as a GC person I have no obligation to give a shit about people with DSDs - woman equals XX, DSDs are not my concern, I never want to hear about the issue again, especially not on this forum which is about a subject that people with DSDs say is nothing to do with people with DSDs.

Sorry I meant to type a longer message but Covid brain is interfering.

I'll explain more later; we have been forced to think there are opposing 'sides' in the whole debate thanks to extreme transactivism.

I wonder whether the reason the TRAs are so keen to co opt people with DSDs is because of "passing"?

"Passing" is a huge issue in TRA circles. Many of those people believe that if they look female enough they should be in our single sex spaces - I sometimes wonder whether cross sex hormones affect vision because what I see and what they see are not the same.

Women with CAIS do look female - not just feminine, but, female. So, is the TRA using these women being used as examples of an ideal?

Are they using people with DSDs as inspo-porn?

I'm still of the opinion that the root of the problem is not with TT unpicking semantics with her small followers - it's much bigger than that.

Would you talk to TT, @ClareCAIS? She strikes me as someone with a curious mind, she seems open to challenge.