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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Harrop MPTS thread 2

999 replies

Personwithrage · 18/11/2021 11:20

Starting the new thread

OP posts:
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23
BreadInCaptivity · 19/11/2021 00:10

@BoreOfWhabylon

Curious. Harrop seems to know all about social media policy when it comes to lecturing lowly paramedics about how to behave online

I bloody well hope that someone from the GMC saw that tweet.

BoreOfWhabylon · 19/11/2021 00:14

Sadly, I suspect not. Although it was within the relevant timeframe.

Redshoeblueshoe · 19/11/2021 00:18

Slight derail - there's a thread in chat asking if people have changed their opinions on stuff by being on Mumsnet. Post after post, of names I don't recognise saying how much the feminist boards have made them think. Excellent work here

Datun · 19/11/2021 00:25

@BoreOfWhabylon

Curious. Harrop seems to know all about social media policy when it comes to lecturing lowly paramedics about how to behave online
Dear lord.

It's important to share my experience, the public need my insights.

And in the PULSE article. He is the centre his own bloody film again. A brave junior doctor, heroically trying to save the day, against all odds.

Right down to the subsequent secret, off the record approval from up high.

There's really something not quite right there.

Terfasaurus · 19/11/2021 00:32

They do need to see it but sounds like it’s too late to get it into evidence.

Bloody hell.

StellaAndCrow · 19/11/2021 01:23

[quote dyslek]**@Artichokeleaves* If he'd posted this anonymously then whatever, much of it would just be unpleasant twit posting anonymously, but he chose to do it under his real name with his real job.*

Its not just that he used his real name and job, the job gave him legitimacy, and that ligitimacy contributed to the fear his victims felt. He used his status as a doctor to intimidate people he did not like in public.[/quote]
Yes, I think this makes it worse.

GAHgamel · 19/11/2021 02:27

@Rightsraptor

If he is allowed straight back to work no doubt there'll be another 'anti-trans conspiracy' with coordinated reporting, by MN vipers of course, of Insta & FB (whatever) posts to the GMC. Again.

Only a matter of time.

It might not need it, if they take the Vice article and the sharing of the witness statements as a separate issue that requires investigation.
FindTheTruth · 19/11/2021 04:38

Q&A about Harrops infamous response to the junior doctor 'feds have caught me' tweet

See this thread at Thu 18-Nov-21 14:57:15 and Thu 18-Nov-21 15:00:08 you'll see that the GMC representative Mr Ryan Donoghue (RD) did indeed question Harrop about this. He questioned his flippant use of the SAME WORDS in the hearing. RD reads the words back to him and talks of contempt for the process. AH response not contempt, arrogance.

EXTRACT
my bold:

RD: stage 2 bundle, two pages, look at page 2. Another tweet here seems to be in response to a doctor and says 'guess the feds have caught me'...(tweet about reflection and personal growth) We can see the words and the emoji

RD: to place this on the time line, you sent this response in September 2020. You're speaking flippantly and your using words now in your statements
AH: yes
RD: do you think your tweets shows contempt for the process?
AH: wouldn't say contempt but I'd say arrogance

AH: I deleted my twitter a few days later. Can't think of better word but not contempt. I think it's important to conceptualise this tweet. This is a response made to a much more junior colleague who'd spoken in jovial and light hearted terms about his own problems.

AH: certainly from an optics point of view and it demonstrates my incomplete insight at the time.
RD: you say junior how many more years junior?
AH: I don't know this person but they say they're a first year.

When I was writing these tweets I was a fully qualified GP in my first year. I'd say he was 6 years my junior.
RD: want to deal with one final matter in to insight.

RD: in your first statement. Page 4 para 12, refs modules completed online in relation to various matters. You produced certificates and haven't reflected any learning or certificates in regards to those.

AH: no not as such, not a specific reflective statement but of course these course have had an influence

RD: would you say your insight has only been developed partially?
AH: I wouldn't say that. (Too fast) I suffer from low self esteem and body image

Personal growth is not a single event, you don't arrive at personal growth, I believe my insights regarding these events in relation to last couple days and SM activity over last 3.5 years. I've been through an immensely stressful and challenging period of time. I'm approaching

..the end and I feel I've done whatever necessary for my professional and personal development. As much a speeds to be developed in relation to these events, I feel I've got there. I understand why I'm sat answering questions and those lessons have been learnt

All I can do is make my solid assurances that I've learnt some unforgettable lessons from these events and these events will never rear their ugly head again or happen again. I'm not saying it's implausible the situ would never arise again...

RD has no further questions

-------------
BUSTED

As PP @MissLucyEyelesbarrow helpfully pointed out "That tweet, when he already knew he was on the GMC's radar, is arguably even stupider than the Vice interview."

Harrop MPTS thread 2
Mummyoflittledragon · 19/11/2021 05:31

Just caught up on this thread. Thank you for the transcripts and insights into his behaviour.

It appears questioning is at an end. Does anyone know approximately how long until a decision is reached?

Terfydactyl · 19/11/2021 07:18

@Redshoeblueshoe

Slight derail - there's a thread in chat asking if people have changed their opinions on stuff by being on Mumsnet. Post after post, of names I don't recognise saying how much the feminist boards have made them think. Excellent work here
Adding to derail. Can we all have a badge then? Shiny one please.
Motorina · 19/11/2021 07:44

It appears questioning is at an end. Does anyone know approximately how long until a decision is reached?

It's not so much making the decision which slows things down, but that it needs to be written up before it's released. Writing anything by committee is a fairly laborious proces.

I've never worked with a legally qualified chair, and that may speed things up, so take this slightly with a pinch of salt, but I would be surprised to see it today.

My best guess is the latter half of Monday.

Remember, that will be the stage one decision. So what's found proved and what isn't. It won't be the final outcome.

The hearing will then move to stage two, where decisions on misconduct, impairment and sanction will be made.

Motorina · 19/11/2021 08:01

Sorry - my post above is wrong. I've just actually looked up the MPTS procedure and they divide it into three stages.

Stage one: finding of facts (this is what is happening now)
Stage two: misconduct and impairment
Stage three: sanction.

Same process as I'm used to but broken down differently.

Sorry! All the regulators are basically the same, but just different enough to catch you out.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 19/11/2021 08:13

To echo what Motorina and others have said, don't under estimate the panel. I have some experience in this area with another profession and panels are experienced and sophisticated. They will have sat on other panels and heard lots of "mitigation" and "insight" over the years.
They will have to ensure that the response in this case is proportionate to other cases of similar seriousness.
One factor that I have seen taken into account in the area I work in is whether something is a one off misjudgement or a more engrained pattern of behaviour. It is generally easier to identify insight and remorse in the case of the former and more challenging in the case of the latter.
I am not trying to predict the panel's decision but saying that they will have the ability to critically analyse the evidence and to draw a balanced conclusion. The other point I would make is that they will have seen AH give evidence which will allow them to assess his credibility in a way we can't.

My view is that if there is any form of sanction, AH is unlikely to be able to resume his previous behaviour as he will be on notice of what is regarded as appropriate professional behaviour by a doctor in relation to social media.

PronounssheRa · 19/11/2021 08:55

@BoreOfWhabylon

Curious. Harrop seems to know all about social media policy when it comes to lecturing lowly paramedics about how to behave online
Well imagine my surprise
MonsignorMirth · 19/11/2021 08:58

@BoreOfWhabylon

Curious. Harrop seems to know all about social media policy when it comes to lecturing lowly paramedics about how to behave online
I might be wrong but I think two different tweets are being discussed re AH's "advice" on social media. One where he tells a doctor to pretend to be sorry and use the right words,

and the one uploaded here where he says to a paramedic "please make sure you check the WMAS social media policy before posting!" in Sept 2018. So he was aware that there is a policy that applied to Twitter posts and might affect what content you post.

MonsignorMirth · 19/11/2021 09:03

(By "here" I meant in Bore's post which I quoted, but you'll have to find the post to see the screenshot! )

Effzeh · 19/11/2021 09:04

..the end and I feel I've done whatever necessary for my professional and personal development. As much a speeds to be developed in relation to these events, I feel I've got there. I understand why I'm sat answering questions and those lessons have been learnt

All I can do is make my solid assurances that I've learnt some unforgettable lessons from these events and these events will never rear their ugly head again or happen again. I'm not saying it's implausible the situ would never arise again...

RD has no further questions

I've watched so many cross-examinations, and that last sentence of AH's is barrister gold. RD didn't even need to set the trap for him, he did it all by himself.

I imagine the Defence barrister facepalming into the middle of the week after next as he heard those words leave his client's mouth. Grin

FannyCann · 19/11/2021 09:08

All I can do is make my solid assurances that I've learnt some unforgettable lessons from these events

Harrop MPTS thread 2
TrainedByDinosaurs · 19/11/2021 09:11

@Redshoeblueshoe

Slight derail - there's a thread in chat asking if people have changed their opinions on stuff by being on Mumsnet. Post after post, of names I don't recognise saying how much the feminist boards have made them think. Excellent work here
That’s awesome Grin

I nearly posted on that thread then stopped as I thought non feminist board members might be fed up of hearing from us

TrainedByDinosaurs · 19/11/2021 09:18

@Motorina

Sorry - my post above is wrong. I've just actually looked up the MPTS procedure and they divide it into three stages.

Stage one: finding of facts (this is what is happening now)
Stage two: misconduct and impairment
Stage three: sanction.

Same process as I'm used to but broken down differently.

Sorry! All the regulators are basically the same, but just different enough to catch you out.

Motorina Thank-you your expert insight has been invaluable as has @tribunaltweets on twitter [flower]

Without both of you and the wonderful discussions on here I’d have found this process hard to follow and I wouldn't have missed AH’s car crash evidence for anything Grin

His poor poor defence barrister Shock

GertrudeKerfuffle · 19/11/2021 09:22

@Redshoeblueshoe

Slight derail - there's a thread in chat asking if people have changed their opinions on stuff by being on Mumsnet. Post after post, of names I don't recognise saying how much the feminist boards have made them think. Excellent work here
I spend a lot of time reading, but don't comment much. Since learning via MN the situation women are facing I've been taking a lot of interest.

Thank you to all those of you who work hard to bring what is happening to our attention Thanks

Triangul8ed · 19/11/2021 09:35

Waiting for someone to make the film version of the Harropiad.

mammajustkilledagnat · 19/11/2021 09:38

Penfold to play Harrop?
A Flump for the litigious one?

Personwithrage · 19/11/2021 09:38

There would be lots of front on, eye contact with viewer, shots. With really emphatic and slightly emotional statements

OP posts:
Needmoresleep · 19/11/2021 09:41

Joanna Hogg as Director.

Fixed camera essentially framing a group of people, and allowing for lots of silence and facial expressions.

Swipe left for the next trending thread