Six biological sexes

[WhateverWhatsapped]

I'm currently studying for a degree and on the WhatsApp study group a discussion about sex and gender came up.

One comment said that sex is not binary but is a social construct with six biological sexes currently identified. Sex doesn't materially exist, we made them up and then applied them to naturally occurring phenomena (not even sure what that last bit means)

I feel like I'm a player in The Emperor's New Clothes, I know it's bollocks but I'm too scared of the consequences to challenge it.

Have they named the 6 sexes?

Are you able to say what the subject is? That's shocking. Surely your tutors would correct this if they knew?

Please not medicine, please not medicine

Just reply with a "🤣" and a "what utter bullshit" it really is that easy.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g It's a humanity thank goodness

Would an apparent bright-eyed eagerness to learn work here? Asking what the six biological sexes are and how, i.e. according to what features, they are classified in homo sapiens, other hominids, other primates and other mammals?

@Chersfrozenface

Would an apparent bright-eyed eagerness to learn work here? Asking what the six biological sexes are and how, i.e. according to what features, they are classified in homo sapiens, other hominids, other primates and other mammals?

And ask how sexual reproduction works...

That's a good idea about asking to name the apparent sexes. I can do that and still carry on being a wuss!

With six sexes, nearly 2000 genders and unlimited pronouns, I'm not looking forward to the drop down boxes on forms. Good luck anyone who is zin gender scrolling through the rest of them.

@Chersfrozenface

Would an apparent bright-eyed eagerness to learn work here? Asking what the six biological sexes are and how, i.e. according to what features, they are classified in homo sapiens, other hominids, other primates and other mammals?

Wow, that's fascinating! I only did Biology GCSE a few years ago and I don't remember any of that coming up, we got the boring old 'there are only two sexes because there are only two gametes' stuff. Can you give me the journal references so I can read up more?

Can you say what subject you're studying? Hopefully nothing that relies on knowledge of biology...

I'd be sorely tempted to answer along the lines of 'I can't argue with that... because I can't argue with stupid'.

Difference between a bimodal pattern and a spectrum. Might help.

Are there 6 possible sex chromosome karyotypes, maybe that's what they meant?
XX, XY, XO XXY , are there 2 other viable variations? ... but those other than the vastly commonest first two occur in people with VSDs who are still either female or male.

They're making the mistake again of thinking that sex = chromosome combinations. But sex = male or female bodies designed to produce either sperm or ova. There are no sexes in humans other than male and female. Chromosomes are the starting point of sex differentiation, which is why you can have XX-males and XY-females. But the end point even in those cases are male and female bodies.

Sex is all about reproductive categories. If there are only two gametes, there are only two sexes.

I really wish people would learn a tiny bit of philosophy. Just a little bit of epistemology or theory of concepts. So the word or label “sex” is obviously a social construct, it being an arbitrary set of noises. But the concept of sex is not made up by humans - it is not a social construct. As your friend points out, sex refers to natural phenomena out there in the world. We have noticed this natural phenomena (the fact there are two sexes with two reproductive roles) and applied the label “sex” in order for easier categorisation. Your friend will surely be astonished to learn this applies across the board to all concepts. We have observed a certain natural phenomena and labelled them “cats”. This doesn’t mean cats are made up.

If it's about karyotypes and they're opining that women with Turner syndrome aren't female and men with Klinefelter syndrome aren't male then they're on a very sticky wicket re VSDs, shockingly ignorant and disrespectful.

I just found this, which is interesting. Sex most definitely is biological though...

www.joshuakennon.com/the-six-common-biological-sexes-in-humans/

@WeeBisom

I really wish people would learn a tiny bit of philosophy. Just a little bit of epistemology or theory of concepts. So the word or label “sex” is obviously a social construct, it being an arbitrary set of noises. But the concept of sex is not made up by humans - it is not a social construct. As your friend points out, sex refers to natural phenomena out there in the world. We have noticed this natural phenomena (the fact there are two sexes with two reproductive roles) and applied the label “sex” in order for easier categorisation. Your friend will surely be astonished to learn this applies across the board to all concepts. We have observed a certain natural phenomena and labelled them “cats”. This doesn’t mean cats are made up.

This!

Maybe ask them if we made up mountains, grass, and elephants too?

Could you ask for a flow chart showing the results of those 6 sexes reproducing in various combinations?

This is quite a relevant thread OP:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3827093-Fausto-Sterling-5-genders-I-was-ironic-Its-called-scholarship

Briefly, Anne Fausto-Sterling asserted there were 5 sexes and after decades of it having become accepted and established in certain areas of academia, she then said she was having a bit of a laugh.

@jiggeryjaggerywoo

I just found this, which is interesting. Sex most definitely is biological though...

www.joshuakennon.com/the-six-common-biological-sexes-in-humans/

Interesting, but not, I think, biologically sound. The blogger studied classical music and a wide range of liberal arts in his undergraduate degree and now works in financial services. He seems to have decided that women with Turner's Syndrome are not women because they only have one X chromosome. He has also missed out Triple X syndrome, which I believe is also one of the more common DSDs.

‘Sex doesn't materially exist, we made them up and then applied them to naturally occurring phenomena (not even sure what that last bit means)’

By this definition nothing exists and everything is made up, including the person making the remark.

I am not sure how that is a useful definition of existence.

just found this, which is interesting. Sex most definitely is biological though...

Yes, *both *sexes are definitely biological.

He seems to have decided that women with Turner's Syndrome are not women because they only have one X chromosome.

On the same planet, people with Down's Syndrome presumably aren't human.