DIANE ABBOTT AND SEX WORK ARTICLE IN THE TIMES

[Mollyollydolly]

Diane tweeted about sex work
'Horrific that Durham University is offering training to students who want to be sex workers part-time. Sex work is degrading, dangerous and exploitative. Uni should have nothing to do with it'.
If you really want to depress yourself look at the responses to her tweet. I really don't understand what went wrong on the left, how is prostitution progressive? I just don't get it, some of the replies from the likes of Femi and blue tick Independent journalists make me feel sick. They sound like pimps.

Saddest of all are the young women who have been gaslight into thinking this is a good career choice. So depressing.

[quote dyslek]@VladmirsPoutine 'Within certain African or Caribbean communities the term 'Auntie' is a term of respect. It is not shorthand for misogyny or racism or ageism. Please be aware of what it is you speak so confidently about without having a clue.'

Auntie, when used out of context, like other terms of endearment, say for instance by a white beardy woke bloke mansplaining feminism to the first black british woman MP, most definatly is racist, misognyist and agest.[/quote]

I had a skim and only saw it used by a black woman. A white man is not going to call a black woman auntie- it's not part of British culture to call elders auntie. Why would such a white beardy man think to use it?

Maybe I'm wrong and a person of that description did, but I can't see it, personally

Why the hate on beards? I've seen similar comments on other threads too.

My husband has a beard, is that a bad thing?

I like beards!

I think it's a reference to the common styling adopted by a certain type of bloke. Rather than beards full stop

@Theeyeballsinthesky

Meanwhile the guardian cool girls keep on keeping on!! twitter.com/zoesqwilliams/status/1459458834284617734?s=21

If sex work is work it must be subject to the same employment laws including health and safety that all other work is

Strangely No one seems keen on that though

Country I live in has that. Buying womens holes for sex is legal. Prostitutes pay their income tax, have health insurance. Then what happens is this: Women don't want to be prostitutes. Local women have other options, education, jobs, benefits. But men can legally visit and want to. Demand outstrips supply. So in come the trafficked women from poorer countries. Held captive and forced by pimps. But everything is legal, right? So how do you know if a woman is a legal prostitute or being forced? Easy to turn a blind eye. Bottom of the priority list. All that legalising prostitution does is force a larger group of poor women to take the place of the local women. There are always enough poor women to take advantage of.

So all 'sex work is work' does is endanger a poorer group of women than yourself.

That Zoe Williams thread is quite something. The premise seems to be thinking prostitution is wrong means you're frigid. It's all very Victoria isn't it?
I do hope Sonia Sodha isn't in the same office, I couldn't keep my gob shut if I worked anywhere near Zoe.
Who needs sexist men when you've got Zoe.

@Mumdiva99

Let's not blame University here. Let's look at society that are normalising sex work. Only fans has been promoted as a 'legitimate' way to make lots of money by the likes of Kerry Katona, Sarah Jane Dunne etc..... Then there is TV content in itself which is explicit and pornographic etc etc.... If its on TV and I do it on the Internet that isn't pornography....etc etc....

I would think most the sex work is online and that it would involve women and men. Does it horrify me that we have got to this point - absolutely. I came on this thread 100% with Diane. And I fully respect her for speaking out. But, on the other hand.....if it is happening are the SU being responsible in addressing this?

Think about things like County Lines education in schools......would we hope that a 'just say no' message is enough? Hopefully. But it isn't. County Line happens and is a real danger to kids- so they are educated on knowing the signs to keep themselves safe.

Do I ever want my kids doing any kind of sex work....absolutely not.

I think your comment here about television is to the point. We often talk here about greater restrictions on things like pornography. But just regular tv now has sexual content that in the 1970s would have been considered porn, and not even low-key porn. Shows like GoT, The Tudors, Normal People. The actors in these shows aren't even considered to be doing sex work, their jobs are considered aspirational.

And as for the student's recreational sex lives, on the surface some don't look much different than that either.

It's awful the university doesn't seem to be questioning it, but they also aren't the people creating that culture.

yes it's pathetic isn't it? Trying to make out it's only older women that aren't getting it at home that aren't fine with prostitution because they're frigid and jealous. Very far from the truth in my case, and in the case of my friend who used to be a prostitute as an addict and is now the most vocal person I know in how damaging it is.

@VladmirsPoutine

And yes the handy shorthand 'Auntie' is very telling

@FindTheTruth What is it telling? I've been (along with my brothers) referring to my parents' female friends as 'auntie' all my life. Have I inadvertently been ageist and sexist and indeed racist?

I doubt you were saying what the people in the tweets were, their intent wasn't respectful or affectionate.

Might be different people could use the same word with completely different intent.

A shame; ten, fifteen years ago I like Zoe Williams. She seems to have been thoroughly taken in with all of this shite. Some people are so susceptible to peer pressure and looking good to a “youth” audience that their brains go begging.

It’s usually some of the most middle class and privileged students (and media types) who are all in for this stuff. They like the “contrarian” side of it, and how it doesn’t then require any actual activism apart congratulating oneself on rightthink, and that it’s all so empowering and great. They are usually the same people who also bang on about “toxic masculinity” without noticing that it might be a bit toxic to buy sex. There is no real engagement with any of the logical contradictions going on, just self-congratulation, refusal to talk about harms, and a kind of perfornative disingenuousness. (As demonstrated on this thread.)

*liked

I'd like to see a debate between Zoe Williams and Karen Ingala Smith who said:

"Prostitution turns people into products and abusive, predatory men who fully recognise the power imbalance in the transaction, into consumers. Prostitution puts people, mainly women, in situations where they are easy prey to murderous men. It is the twisted logic of sex trade advocates that creates a space for victim blaming and denies that prostitution is abuse."
kareningalasmith.com/2021/04/21/counting-dead-trans-people/

Article
Misogyny by any other name
A breaking story in The Times has revealed that Durham University has decided to join the University of Leicester in seeking to achieve the accolade of So Open-Minded Their Brains Have Fallen Out, with the revelation that the former has initiated a “training course” for students involved in the “Adult Sex Industry”
thecritic.co.uk/misogyny-by-any-other-name/

The sex trade lobby states prostitution ‘is just work’
Evidence across the globe shows that legitimising the sex trade makes it more harmful, not less, with increases in abuse, trafficking, child rape prostitution & much more:

Legalising prostitution increases trafficking
Study across 150 countries

Legitimising prostitution increases trafficking
EU report

Why legalising increases abuse
Economic theory and the sex trade

Sex Trafficking harder to prevent when prostitution legitimised

Myths of Prostitution (interviews with survivors)

LINKS HERE: notbuyingit.org.uk/sex-trade-publications/

I think there is a big difference between providing trading to keep students, who are already sex workers, safe AND providing training to students so they can become sex workers. Durham is doing the former not what the newspapers are reporting.

Having said that, it is a very nice timed article to help us concentrate on the horrors of the “left” to distract us from all the news about government corruption circulating at the moment.

… and to that I add that it is actually the tories who have reduced the financial resources allocated to universities to deal with student hardship.

There is if it's just anonymous pictures and videos online on only fans or whatever

Anonymous ‘vanilla’ pictures and videos on Only Fans don’t make money. To continue to make money providers have to provide more and more explicit content and sell more of themselves.

Fundamentally ‘sex work’ is a misnomer because punters aren’t buying labour, they are buying access and control.

@foxgoosefinch

Also most people who support sex work are more liberal so they're hardly going to be making racist comments.

Ahaha 🤣 I sincerely admire your naïveté!

Men of all political affiliations have always supported “sex work”. Pimps and punters support “sex work”. If you think these are lovely liberal anti-racist types then I have got a bridge to sell you.

It never ceases fo amaze me just how far credulous people - but especially credulous young women - are taken in by this silly idea that “supporting sex work” is some kind of progressive feminism. You’re all dupes and shills for men who commodify women’s bodies and women’s pain, and you only benefit and enrich people who are not lovely progressive types, but some of the worst of society.

It’s like celebrating “civilised” high class drug dealing because a few women might earn some easy cash selling cocaine to bankers.

Absolutely this.

And as ever, I have no interest in stigmatising, judging or punishing women involved in prostitution. The words I choose do not do that. It is the men who buy them and traumatise them who do that.

Let’s flip it and start running courses for punters to teach them that decent men don’t pay women for sex, then maybe they’ll act like human beings worthy of respect and I won’t despise them.

I’d always thought that the pro sex work posters on this thread were people with a vested interest in prostitution, probably men. If I’m wrong, and they’re women who are happy to see other women suffer so they can be cool girls, I’m very depressed. As long as it’s other women being raped, beaten up and suffering from PTSD and addictions, I guess it’s all tickety boo, eh. Sheesh.

@ AuberySuffolk on twitter:

If sex work was work then Health & Safety Work Act, Control of Substances Hazardous To Health Regs would apply. Full protective clothing and systems required rendering most sexual acts impossible

And dr Em on point:

Dunno about training student sex workers to do it safely, but Durham has a lot of work to do in getting its male students to behave better imo. DD graduated two years ago and told terrible tales of lack of consent and rape and how the university did nothing when faced with female students seeking help. Students there need effective consent workshops. And action needs to be taken against the (mainly sports team lads) students who behave in this way

thetab.com/uk/2021/04/15/the-uk-unis-with-the-most-reports-of-sexual-harassment-and-assault-on-everyones-invited-202192

Sorry pressed post .. don't know if this is a reliable source but Durham is quite high on list topped by good old Exeter

This was a 2014 report off the toxic culture at universities. Perhaps it explains why girls might develop an illusion that selling themselves might give them more control.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/womens-blog/2014/oct/10/10-things-female-students-face-university-misogyny-banter

And this- amp.theguardian.com/education/2020/sep/23/durham-university-withdraws-freshers-place-over-abhorrent-online-posts

Article is from last year. Many of the students whose behaviour is mentioned will still be there.

@WarriorN

@ AuberySuffolk on twitter:

If sex work was work then Health & Safety Work Act, Control of Substances Hazardous To Health Regs would apply. Full protective clothing and systems required rendering most sexual acts impossible

This!

Other jobs involving any sort of contact with bodily fluids require gloves, aprons, possibly goggles, masks etc.

If 'sex work is work' and just like any other job, then surely the same standards apply?