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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Woman's Hour now: BBC walking away from Stonewall

314 replies

nauticant · 11/11/2021 10:06

Emma Barnett is asking the questions.

OP posts:
Heruka · 11/11/2021 16:33

Yeow! Amazing. That pause…

1Endeavour2 · 11/11/2021 16:37

No shame, no shame at all.
Anyone else think he was doing classic male on female dominance? At the beginning he kept referring to her name Emma.... It sounded so belittling and patronising to me. He stopped this about halfway through when she started hitting back at him. I also thought he became very nervous. Stuck too the same old mumbo jumbo there. I'd be surprised off the BBC changes much as the gulf is vast...Well done Emma

3timeslucky · 11/11/2021 16:46

@WinterTrees

I'm glad he's GC, I love his books

JesusMaryandJoseph John Boyne kind of found himself in the GC camp when he was eviscerated and fed to the TRA wolves in the wake of his novel 'My Brother's Name is Jessica'. I think he would previously have classed himself as an ally.

He also wrote a piece objecting to being called "cis". They came for him then too.
WhereYouLeftIt · 11/11/2021 16:49

I'm actually looking forward to Anita Rani's show tomorrow. She's full-on TWAW - it could be interesting. I stopped listening on Fridays after she tweeted this.

After all, it's possible she's wised up too - EB was a bit TWAW at first. I do find myself wondering - was EB toeing the BBC line of the time, was she a secret terf, of was she TWAW until this gig has exposed her to what's going on?

Woman's Hour now: BBC walking away from Stonewall
BettyFilous · 11/11/2021 16:50

@nauticant

The BBC senior management are in the position of checking their luggage onto a flight knowing their suitcase was packed by this dodgy bloke their mate told them was OK.
@nauticant This is the second of your posts today on this thread that made me belly laugh. You’re on fire! Thank you. Laughs are in short supply these days.
3timeslucky · 11/11/2021 16:52

Interesting how he couldn't answer questions on the fly live on the airwaves on these difficult and contentious issues, but that's what the Beeb's journalists have been doing. He needs an editorial policy to be thrashed out before he can comment. So what framework have the journalists been using up til now?

It is a poor bluff when the implications of what he said are that there was a policy (which aligned with the Stonewall ideology) but now there isn't so he can't say anything.

Or did I misunderstand?

heathspeedwell · 11/11/2021 16:54

If anyone is in the Facebook group 'Radio 4. It's not just for the Middle Aged v2.0' then there's an interesting discussion about this at the moment.

nauticant · 11/11/2021 16:55

BettyFilous Smile

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 11/11/2021 17:02

@BoreOfWhabylon

Re the number of trans employees at the BBC, this was reported a couple of years ago after a staff survey. The number then was 417 www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1WbP92b6YbpP9j4mwwbtc9Q/contact-us

The figure represents more than one in 50 of the workforce – about four times higher than the proportion in the population at large.

And it stunned the BBC executive behind the research, who described the total number of trans employees, at 417, as 'very, very high'.

Tunde Ogungbesan, the BBC's director of diversity, has now launched a major reform to make the Corporation more 'trans-friendly' following the findings.

Mr Ogungbesan told the Westminster Social Policy Forum that the results would lead to the rewriting of the BBC's 'style guide', which sets out the rules on 'fairness and terminology' at the corporation.

I was just going to point this out actually when I saw this quote:

EB: "Stonewall have said pulling out of the scheme means LGBTQ+ people suffer. What have you got to say to the 2% of the staff of the BBC who identify as trans."

www.stonewall.org.uk/truth-about-trans
The best estimate at the moment is that around 1% of the population might identify as trans, including people who identify as non-binary. That would mean about 600,000 trans and non-binary people in Britain, out of a population of over 60 million.

Why are trans people so over represented at the BBC?

And at whose expense?

We KNOW that the BBC is massively over represented by males, gay men and the privately educated.

So which groups are being massively under represented.

If identity is such a big thing, perhaps we should be having difficult conversations about working class lesbians for example...

(strangely enough, I think there are a few gender critical ones I can think of who have been actively deplatformed by various lobbists....)

ChloeCrocodile · 11/11/2021 17:06

The BBC senior management are in the position of checking their luggage onto a flight knowing their suitcase was packed by this dodgy bloke their mate told them was OK.

I love that analogy! And there will be plenty more companies, organisations (and schools!) in exactly the same position as Stonewall's protection racket training and accreditation scheme continues to unravel.

nauticant · 11/11/2021 17:08

It looks like Woman's Hour realise they've got a hit on their hands:

twitter.com/BBCWomansHour/status/1458816535728852995

OP posts:
Telesilla · 11/11/2021 17:32

ABitOfALark
Yes! I remember someone muttering darkly about ‘Never Upset Nations & Regions’ Hmm or there’d be hell to pay! Perhaps there has been a division, or a bloody internal clash of arms, eep.
And perhaps they weren’t in EP, but prowled elsewhere, terrifying from afar. I wasn’t in that office for long, so might be recalling it wrongly. But N&R had serious clout.

RedToothBrush · 11/11/2021 17:42

The BBC. Where there was a target to REDUCE LGBT representation in the work place at the same time as Stonewall goes nuts and seems to have far too much influence (which apparently doesn't influence despite paying to train staff to be influenced).

Fascinating.

The most oppressed seem to have a disportionate amount of power in the media compared to the country as a whole (and women are unrepresented).

Woman's Hour now: BBC walking away from Stonewall
MistandMud · 11/11/2021 17:46

@WhereYouLeftIt

I'm actually looking forward to Anita Rani's show tomorrow. She's full-on TWAW - it could be interesting. I stopped listening on Fridays after she tweeted this.

After all, it's possible she's wised up too - EB was a bit TWAW at first. I do find myself wondering - was EB toeing the BBC line of the time, was she a secret terf, of was she TWAW until this gig has exposed her to what's going on?

I like Anita Rani and don’t mind what one poster described as’Fluffy Fridays’. I just disagree with her about compulsory-pretending-we-can’t-tell-the-difference-between-the-sexes, but I suspect that she comes at it via an automatic sympathy for being a minority.
LizzieSiddal · 11/11/2021 17:51

The BBC have been in a massive Stonewall bubble for about 4 years.

That bubble has now well and truly popped!🎉

MonsignorMirth · 11/11/2021 17:56

@RedToothBrush

The BBC. Where there was a target to REDUCE LGBT representation in the work place at the same time as Stonewall goes nuts and seems to have far too much influence (which apparently doesn't influence despite paying to train staff to be influenced).

Fascinating.

The most oppressed seem to have a disportionate amount of power in the media compared to the country as a whole (and women are unrepresented).

Wow! Where's that from? Is that not just demonstrating they exceeded their target?
Needmoresleep · 11/11/2021 17:57

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10190853/BBC-withdrew-Stonewall-diversity-scheme-didnt-want-appear-biased.html

They managed to get the gingerbread people poster in.

BloodinGutters · 11/11/2021 18:00

@RedToothBrush

The BBC. Where there was a target to REDUCE LGBT representation in the work place at the same time as Stonewall goes nuts and seems to have far too much influence (which apparently doesn't influence despite paying to train staff to be influenced).

Fascinating.

The most oppressed seem to have a disportionate amount of power in the media compared to the country as a whole (and women are unrepresented).

At a glance that looks like that’s their minimum target to reach, not that there would be any problem over reaching.
TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 11/11/2021 18:01
Also Kelley’s antisemitism quote and a nice list of ‘big Stonewall scheme quitters.’
RedToothBrush · 11/11/2021 18:05

Wow! Where's that from? Is that not just demonstrating they exceeded their target?

The 2018 BBC document on diversity.

We know that gay men were also over represented (and have been for years) at the BBC.

Tanith · 11/11/2021 18:10

“ BloodinGutters, exactly. I say this about any organisation, it's the easiest thing in the world NOT to discriminate, why the fuck should any reputable organisation need a lobbying group to tell them how to do so.”

You forget how entrenched Stonewall was - and still is.

When Government organisations, universities, schools, supermarkets, law firms, political parties, etc. etc. are all members of the Stonewall Diversity programme, the pressure to join the scheme is immense.

I remember being appalled when someone published the long, long list of all the organisations that were Stonewalled. I really began to understand just how this ideology had become so entrenched in almost every aspect of our lives.

I think it was the people who did the hard graft of writing to them all that started all this, all those FOI requests. They forced these organisations to evaluate exactly how much money they were spending on Stonewall’s programme and what they were getting out of it.

Mollyollydolly · 11/11/2021 18:25

I worked in a BBC newsroom in the regions for years, just like in real life, the vast majority of people think it's all bollocks. Just like in other workplaces they haven't felt free to say so, that's what changing and it's wonderful to see. And the demographic in newsrooms tends to be slightly older (and wiser), departments like children's full of bright young things who've swallowed all the gender stuff. The BBC is a microcosm of society in general really.
What I loved about Emma's interview was the nuance, she was really drilling down into the practicalities, the reality of changing language, it was brilliant to listen to.

FannyCann · 11/11/2021 18:29

Oh dear. Seems quite a lot of BBC workers are about to discover no one is indispensable and jobs with prestigious organisations may not be quite so easy to find just now.

BBC staff vow to QUIT over plans to end Stonewall relationship
mol.im/a/10191733

Itmightbepossibletomoveonnow · 11/11/2021 18:30

Great interview by Emma today, good listening. The lack of leadership leading is the key here.

And just in case the BBC have forgotten how far they’ve got to go yet….

mobile.twitter.com/Newsround_Blog/status/1151821906707984385

WhatyoutalkingaboutWillis · 11/11/2021 18:31

Emma has a new fan in me. Brilliant