Does anyone believe this debate will go ahead ?

[yestheyhavethesamedad]

Grace lavery at 2am sunday morning put out a post asking british feminists for a debate , when they are in the uk in march , about 3 minutes later claimed people were too scared to debate 🙄
Helen Joyce, Julie Bindle and a few more woman have said yes ,grace is now saying no one has confirmed and that they are backing out.
So does anyone thing this will actually go ahead and want to place bets on the excuses why suddenly it cannot go ahead , backpeddling already started , ie: no one is organising ect

Well Laurie Penny has a book coming out too so why not?

Women!! Hurrah!! A man has graciously agreed to debate your rights!!

We don't need debate. We need our rights respected and upheld.

Considering Grace slavery thinks this is a decent argument I would imagine they’d be humiliated in a debate with a 12 year old.

LP has dated an other trans woman called Margaret killjoy too. Google image search useful here.

GL asked Matthew D'Ancona to do it, & it sounds like he'd bd a good choice so hopefully that will go ahead.

The way GL tweeted on Saturday night uk time and was calling them cowards for mot replying at 9 on Sunday morning, then saying they (bindel and joyce) must be backing out because they weren't replying much during Sunday was really weird. It suggests self sabotage, or maybe just believing oneself is the centre of everything?

There is a degree of manic naval gazing to the tweets and the past interview I think.

I’ll be surprised if we have any sense of what that person thinks at the end of the debate. Maybe their book will have a sense of clarity instead of what feels like a vapour of thoughts that their tweets and interviews convey.

Has Lavery said sex wasn’t determined in previous eras? What a load of rubbish and they should be put to work reading Renaissance anatomy textbooks if so.

I’d be interested if Julie will do one as well.

Wouldn’t it be great to have more of these extended discussions? I live in hope that Montgomery develops the backbone to carry through the interview they then backed away with JCJ with a moderator. (Not on their own show, unless it was live and someone else who was a neutral moderator had the controls.)

I'm confused, is D'Ancona supposedly going to be the moderator or the debater?

@Ereshkigalangcleg
D'Ancona is the moderator , helen joyce has agreed to debate , so has julie bindel and sarah phillmore so the no woman will debate me was quickly shot down , so gl is now going with no one has confirmed no one has given me details because they won't give me their email addresses, and are not responding within 30 sevonds of me posting , even though im not tagging them , for them to be able to see

These people have parroted 'no debate' for so long and yet are now pretending that it is our side that won't debate. Even while we're shouting "yes, yes, we are happy to debate! Just name a time and place!"

Of course Lavery is terrified of debating Helen Joyce. Lavery knows that Joyce has more intelligence in her little finger than Lavery does in Lavery's massive ego-inflated head.

Helen Joyce suggested yesterday that, with it being Sunday, everyone waits until working hours to start organising things.

Lavery responded with Too busy. Gotcha.

Erm, no, it’s the weekend.

Anyhoo, it seems that Sarah Phillimore is more than up for all of this.

@yestheyhavethesamedad

Grace lavery at 2am sunday morning put out a post asking british feminists for a debate , when they are in the uk in march , about 3 minutes later claimed people were too scared to debate 🙄 Helen Joyce, Julie Bindle and a few more woman have said yes ,grace is now saying no one has confirmed and that they are backing out. So does anyone thing this will actually go ahead and want to place bets on the excuses why suddenly it cannot go ahead , backpeddling already started , ie: no one is organising ect

Could we have some context please. I had to google Grace Lavery. She is a transwoman in an American university it seems and she will be in the UK for what reason in March?

2 am on Sunday is a pretty odd time to expect responses from people based in the UK.

@Cailin66
Not sure what started it , i looked at helen joyce twitter and was loads of people tagging her in gl post about holding a debate , while helen said yes gl was posting how british feminists were ignoring and too scared .
Loads of people pointed out that whatever time it is where gl is , it was 2 am on a sunday morning in britain , gl then said no one has confirmed they running scared , even after helen joyce said yes , but no organisation can be started till a working day , to give her a chance to speak to people to moderate

Placemarking for the debate details ✏️

‘Of course Lavery is terrified of debating Helen Joyce. Lavery knows that Joyce has more intelligence in her little finger than Lavery does in Lavery's massive ego-inflated head.‘

I think you are waaaay underestimating the confidence of someone like Lavery.

Grace Lavery is mainly famous for being a trans academic. Grace opines on various matters trans-related, but is not very well-informed. Still, Grace gets published, and Jesse Singal has to clear up the mess afterwards.

Tweet linking to related thread: twitter.com/jessesingal/status/1457447296585670659

I believe Grace will be in the UK to promote a book, and this would accompany that.

I have serious doubts that Lavery will actually front up and do the debate, but would love to be proved wrong.

I can’t help but imagine that Lavery vs Joyce might fall foul of laws against blood sports in the UK though 🤣

D'Ancona is the moderator , helen joyce has agreed to debate , so has julie bindel and sarah phillmore so the no woman will debate me was quickly shot down , so gl is now going with no one has confirmed no one has given me details because they won't give me their email addresses, and are not responding within 30 sevonds of me posting , even though im not tagging them , for them to be able to see

Thank you! Eye roll.

This will be amazing. Take my money, I want a ticket.

These people have parroted 'no debate' for so long and yet are now pretending that it is our side that won't debate. Even while we're shouting "yes, yes, we are happy to debate! Just name a time and place!"

Of course Lavery is terrified of debating Helen Joyce. Lavery knows that Joyce has more intelligence in her little finger than Lavery does in Lavery's massive ego-inflated head.

Yes. This isn't going to happen. For GL all attention is attention. Matthew D'Ancona is fair minded and on a personal level supports some GC arguments. What I think will happen is that if it gets definitely confirmed as going ahead Twitter TRAs will be enraged about GC views being platformed at all (because secretly they know who has the more convincing rational arguments) and will force its cancellation. GL will get lots of attention and may be able to position self as trans victim of cancel culture.

@Datun

Placemarking for the debate details ✏️

Same

Grace is very smart, and will be difficult to debate - don't kid yourselves. As a public-school educated teenager, Grace took part in various World debating championships, and has since spent a career discussing conceptually difficult ideas in public. Grace is a good polemicist, doesn't lack verbal style or self-confidence, and is pretty ruthless.

Does she want to sell books? Of course. In fact, Grace currently seems desperate to be sued, or engaged with in other ways that might stir up controversy, in an attempt to corner the trans-saviour market and boost their public profile. She tried to rile Kathleen Stock into biting but that doesn't seem to have worked so now she's trying to use other GC figures to advance her career.

Yy agree totally Thehumblesnail.

Lavery is not stupid. The fact that someone embraces stupid ideas doesn’t make them stupid, particularly when they are the ideas that in the current environment will push your career forward.