Women died for my right to vote, but......

[Bellaisoneluckywoman]

.... who in God's name is a sane gender critical person supposed to vote for if they can't bring themselves to vote Tory?

Imagine said member of the electorate also cared a lot about the environment and loathed Brexit with every bone in her sane GC body. Who could she vote for? Asking for a friend....

It's shit, isn't it? We need The Green Party to live up to its name so much at the moment, but it would rather fanny about calling women terfs.

PandaParty - I even joined the Greens temporarily to vote in the leadership campaign in the hope that the sane candidate would win, but no such luck. Membership duly cancelled.

Ooh watching with interest, also for a friend

Horrible isn't it? I've always said I'd rather pull my own eyes out than vote Tory but now I'm secretly considering it (my adult children would probably have me sectioned if they knew!) If there was a decent Tory in my constituency I'd probably do it, but there isn't. I've voted in every damn election - all of them, local, national and European - for just over 50 years. And now I'm going to have to abstain.
It really sucks.

If none of the other parties have reconsidered please consider voting tory. I would have just laughed if someone, even a year ago, told me I would be saying this, but once women is re-defined to mean anyone there is no coming back. The implications are huge, basically if you take it to its logical extreme (and there is nothing to indicate that they wont, the opposite infact) women will lose every right and protection their currently is.
A government lasts five years max, women losing the rights to be considered an equal human in society will take centuries to reverse.

Neither the SDP nor Communist Party seem to agree with gender identity dogma. Unfortunately, nor do they seem to stand in my area.

In Scotland we have ISP and Alba, both of which support women's rights. ISP sprang from the same place as #womenwontwheest - gender critical people (mostly women) who wouldn't shut up about our sex based rights so as not to cause division in the independence movement.

They're also both pro Indy, but if you're not, you don't have to vote Yes if/when the time comes.

Otherwise hope for a decent independent candidate(s).

Not voting Tory under any circumstances. I spoiled my vote in the last 2 elections - didn't feel good, not proud of it, but honestly had no alternative. 'Politically homeless' has become a bit of a cliche but that's how I feel. I would love to vote Labour but they are utterly dismal

It has got to a point where we really have to campaign once again for ‘votes for women’ - there is no representation for us - Suffragettes 2.0

@Fariha31

If none of the other parties have reconsidered please consider voting tory. I would have just laughed if someone, even a year ago, told me I would be saying this, but once women is re-defined to mean anyone there is no coming back. The implications are huge, basically if you take it to its logical extreme (and there is nothing to indicate that they wont, the opposite infact) women will lose every right and protection their currently is. A government lasts five years max, women losing the rights to be considered an equal human in society will take centuries to reverse.

THIS

I cannot imagine voting Tory but this time I bloody well will unless the other parties rediscover an interest in women's rights and child safeguarding and facts and science.

You can vote for a candidate who is willing to publicly speak up against self id against their parties line. Contact them all in advance and ask.

Or you can spoil your ballot.

Write that it’s because no candidate will speak up against self id or similar massage.

Spoiled ballots are counted. All candidates (or possibly a representative for them, I’m not 100%) have to see all spoiled ballots to agree they are spoiled. It’s a way of saying we want to take part in democracy but there’s no candidate that we could vote for and live with.

Plenty people say this is a pointless choice. If there’s 1 spoiled ballot then sure it’s not going to count. But if at one election there’s 0.01% ballots spoiled with the same or similar messages about the same issue, then the next it’s 0.1% then 1% it shows a trend to candidates where the public opinion is heading. If that’s combined with emails calling them to stand up against self id and emails on similar issues then it can add up and have an effect. In constituencies that aren’t safe seats a candidate can realise the difference between them getting voted in over their opposition might be their stance on this. It might make them look into it in more detail and think about their own views on it. Might make them speak to the women in their lives, or reflect on their experience as a woman.

I think party politics is an awful way to vote, shows such a lack of critical thinking skills. I’d pick a candidate who publicly spoke up loudly against self id no matter which party they were from, no matter their position on any other issue. Not everyone will feel this way, but I don’t think anything could be more important. If that meant voting for someone who was against self id and supported legal definition of a woman remaining the biologically factual one then I’d vote for them even if they had horrendous views on women’s rights otherwise. There is no way to improve women’s rights protections, or the practical day to day experience of women, if legally a woman becomes a category that includes men.

Self id being law means putting women’s rights back pre suffragettes. Only worse, because at least the suffragettes could meet as woman to address fighting for women’s right to vote. If self id comes in women will never be able to meet to fight for women’s rights to be reinstated, because women will always mean men too. There will be no way of measuring how women vote, because women will mean men too. There will be no way to assess women’s issues or needs or which party best addresses these, because women will forever mean men too. Equally how will anyone show men are the class that has both systemic and physical power over women, because men will now include women fleeing from the experience of womanhood.

I’d vote for any candidate who was publicly vocal about opposing self id. There is no greater threat to women as a class than self id.

It almost makes me glad to live in a very safe story constituency, because that way my vote doesn't make any difference anyway.

I've never voted Tory and won't start now- I used to be a member of the Labour Party but I couldn't bring myself to vote for them now because they don't give a shit about women.

My sense is that the strength of feeling on this issue is being MASSIVELY underestimated by Labour, in particular. DH, for instance, can't understand why this would be a red line for me don't get me started on where that conversation leads.

The threats and bullying mean that very few of us have felt able to express our views publicly and I worry that gives the impression that there isn't much opposition to the new nutty ideology.

I've reached a tipping point now and have started to 'like' tweets that I agree with, for instance, but it's taken me a good while to get this far and it could be career suicide.

@LumosSolem

It almost makes me glad to live in a very safe story constituency, because that way my vote doesn't make any difference anyway.

I've never voted Tory and won't start now- I used to be a member of the Labour Party but I couldn't bring myself to vote for them now because they don't give a shit about women.

I live in a very very safe Tory seat.

I can’t even get any candidate, my mp included, to reply to emails asking about self id and similar questions. (Mps have a legal obligation to reply, I put my full name and address on every email, have had replies to other questions, never to gc ones other than the automated office reply).

So I spoil every ballot with gc messages. At least all candidates will know why.

I have to admit actually @BloodinGutters , my local Tory MP is actually a reasonable MP, pains me to say it- and has actually listened to me when I've spoken to him about self ID, the gender woo being taught in my DC's primary school. I've got the feeling he sympathises with the cause, as does his wife from what he said!

I actually need to get in touch with him about the school PHSE stuff as he offered to help when approaching the DfE. Life has been crazy lately and I've not got round to it yet.

Interested too.
I go between green and Labour but don’t feel able to anymore.

I also wonder what will happen if labour get in-? Would they reverse The current progress being made eg bring in self ID?

@Bellaisoneluckywoman

My sense is that the strength of feeling on this issue is being MASSIVELY underestimated by Labour, in particular. DH, for instance, can't understand why this would be a red line for me don't get me started on where that conversation leads.

The threats and bullying mean that very few of us have felt able to express our views publicly and I worry that gives the impression that there isn't much opposition to the new nutty ideology.

I've reached a tipping point now and have started to 'like' tweets that I agree with, for instance, but it's taken me a good while to get this far and it could be career suicide.

We need a real poll of how many voters disagree with self id and for how many of us are now single issue voters.

Seeing the reality of that might wake somebody up.

Now it’s becoming more discussed in msm I’d be surprised if figures from this type of poll didn’t show that there’s enough of us that would decide on this issue alone to significantly alter the make up of Parliament.

The Scottish poll showed only 20% of voters were pro self id (and that would likely be much higher if the realities of it were spelled out). But how many of the 80% would vote on this issue alone? I suspect it’s a fair bit.

If we had that kind of poll in England and Wales, that included if we are deciding our votes based on this alone, what that would show up.

It might make it clear to Labour if they want a majority this is the issue they must get on board with us on. Or the numbers might even show the Lib Dem’s or greens that same thing.

Anyone know which organisations etc could under take something like this? I’m great with theory but understand nothing about how the practicalities of these types of things come about.

Is Baroness Nicholson on here? Can someone @ her?

I'm in Ireland where we have a somewhat different electoral system (proportional representation/single transferable vote) but candidates or their representatives would generally call to the doorstep seeking your vote - it's a great opportunity to raise your concerns with them. For our next election I will be asking candidates questions along the lines of "What is your definition a woman? and taking it from there and letting them know that TW are not Women, women need safe spaces etc.

I will never vote Tory. This is an important issue but not the only issue.

• meant the 20% pro self id would be much much lower if the realities were spelled out

The thought of Labour actually getting in now terrifies me.

I've happily voted against my own economic interest for my entire adult life but I'm no fucking way going to vote against my sex. If a party cannot acknowledge my lived existence as a female person is not fungible with a male's idea of womanhood in his own head, they do not deserve my vote.

@Rummikub

Interested too. I go between green and Labour but don’t feel able to anymore.

I also wonder what will happen if labour get in-? Would they reverse The current progress being made eg bring in self ID?

Of course they would

Why not vote Tory? I don't get why not. I am not a Tory voter but absolutely will vote for them if they oppose self ID. Is not voting Tory more important than preserving women's rights.

@Blibbyblobby

I've happily voted against my own economic interest for my entire adult life but I'm no fucking way going to vote against my sex. If a party cannot acknowledge my lived existence as a female person is not fungible with a male's idea of womanhood in his own head, they do not deserve my vote.

I’ve never understood this POV (financial one).

Do you mean taxation?

Because otherwise the ifs and imf have continually said over the last however many years that it’s labours policies that would be best for the economy.

Makes no difference to my vote, I’m single issue voter, but I’ve never understood the vote conservative if you want a strong economy because the ifs & imf strongly suggest the opposite is true.