Women died for my right to vote, but......

[Bellaisoneluckywoman]

.... who in God's name is a sane gender critical person supposed to vote for if they can't bring themselves to vote Tory?

Imagine said member of the electorate also cared a lot about the environment and loathed Brexit with every bone in her sane GC body. Who could she vote for? Asking for a friend....

One of my best friend is a local conservative party councillor. She finds it amusing that I am so troubled at having to vote Tory. But she also knows what a women is!!

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/universal-credit-uplift-cut-women-b1922184.html

Cuts to Universal Credit will hit women hardest and lead to them losing billions of pounds from their annual incomes in total, figures show.

you vote on whoever has the majority of other most important.

I find it incredible that just as the world finally cops on to the green agenda, the U.K. Greens are naval gazing about identity politics. What a huge missed opportunity.

I've always supported Labour and/or the Greens, but I will vote Tory in a heartbeat if they're going to support women over gender ideology.

@Iggly

Why do people think the Tories oppose self ID? They’ve warmed to it before but admittedly dropped it.

So I just don’t trust them. Making a few sound bite comments is not enough.

Given Labour, the Green party and the Lib Dems will actively support self-ID, I don't think we have a choice. The Tories are the lesser of four evils. Five, if you count the SNP.

I will vote Tory - I will not vote myself out of existence.

Have always voted labour. Parents work for the nhs. But I won’t vote against women and girls rights and safety.

@2orangey

Is there a short, easily memorised phrase we can all write on our spoiled ballots?

Look up old threads on here about this, there’s tones of suggestions everyone was using to spoil ballots at one point. Stickers were used to. Women=adult human female. Women do not have penis’ and so on. Coordinated efforts on Twitter too if your on there (and not in permanent jail like some of us).

[quote JustAnotherPoster00]The Tories might align to the GC brigade but they wont respect your human rights they just need to know which section of the workhouse they put you in

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dominic-raab-human-rights-act-review-b1932579.html[/quote]
I don’t think anyone is under the illusion Tories are all pro women.

They’ve got some strong voices though. And bj has shown he can see where public opinion is going, and we all know he will do anything to get votes.

No one thinks they are great on all women’s issues. But if we can’t have a legal definition of woman being biological sex, then we can NEVER address any issue that impacts women again.

Tories disability policies won’t disproportionately impact women, because half those women will identify as men. Benefits cuts disadvantaging women- don’t be daft because stats say women are mostly employed in well paid tech jobs.

If Labour bring in self id we can never address women’s issues again.

If Tories keep self id out then at least we can have women’s only groups to address women’s issues. We can have data about just women to assess how we are being disadvantaged, so we can lobby gov to address those inequalities.

With self id us real women become invisible in law. And if we can’t name the problems that effect us we can’t address them.

@LobsterNapkin

Because otherwise the ifs and imf have continually said over the last however many years that it’s labours policies that would be best for the economy.

I don't understand this really though - the IMF is basically a neoliberal economic organisation. If they are saying Labour = good for the economy, doesn't that suggest that Labour's economics are about libertarian economics too?

So socially libertarian and economically globalist - how is that leftist at all?

No the imf publicly said dc ressession cuts were damaging ti the economy. They advised an increase of minimum 2% public spending. But he ignored them. Imf always want to make money, they want to economy strong. Always for their own benefit, but still sound advice.

Ifs repeatedly said labours spending plans were much better for the economy than Tories.

It’s makes no difference to me anyways. I don’t care what happens to the economy if my daughters don’t have rights.

No the imf publicly said dc ressession cuts were damaging ti the economy. They advised an increase of minimum 2% public spending. But he ignored them. Imf always want to make money, they want to economy strong. Always for their own benefit, but still sound advice.

Ifs repeatedly said labours spending plans were much better for the economy than Tories.

It’s makes no difference to me anyways. I don’t care what happens to the economy if my daughters don’t have rights.

That's something of a change of tune by the IMF. But I would stand by them not really being anything other than a promoter of globalism, so while I think the Conservatives could stand to change their public spending approach, it's not really like I love what Labour does either.

And I think it may be possible to get the CP to move on some of these things, whereas I see no hope of getting teh LP, or any of the others, to move on identity politics or freedom of thought or any of those things. And I think those are in some ways more foundational to liberal democracy. SO really the gender problem writ larger - if those things are lost having a say in party policy isn't all that likely.

I will absolutely vote Tory if it comes to it. I want to actively vote against the parties that are trying to give away my rights, and voting for an opponent will do them far more damage than spoiling my ballot. If that means voting Tory on this occasion, so be it.

Looking forward to the bewildered reaction of YouTuber Owen Jones when his political party of choice loses yet again because of their failure to grasp that the Twitter echo-chamber of today is due to the 2018 Tumblr porn exodus and has no relation to UK voting reality.

@Lottapianos Hello! Nice to see you over here.

That's actually a good idea. In the last local election in my area I voted Lib Dem, but I have no clue who to vote for in the next GE. I'd vote for the Communist Party in a heartbeat, but they don't stand round here sadly, and it's mostly a fight between Tories and Lib Dem. (I'm not voting for the Tories, ever.)

Women's rights are very important, but we currently have people living in this country who are going cold and hungry, and it's very hard to care about anything else when you're in that situation (not me, luckily.) So no, I can't vote for a party that lets people suffer like that.

Looking forward to the bewildered reaction of YouTuber Owen Jones when his political party of choice loses yet again because of their failure to grasp that the Twitter echo-chamber of today is due to the 2018 Tumblr porn exodus and has no relation to UK voting reality.

Are you also looking forward to the bewildered reaction of disabled people as further rights, dignities and financial support is removed from them as well?

A lot of the disabled people who take their own life because of the treatment and contempt they receive from the DWP and their service providers are also women

@LobsterNapkin

No the imf publicly said dc ressession cuts were damaging ti the economy. They advised an increase of minimum 2% public spending. But he ignored them. Imf always want to make money, they want to economy strong. Always for their own benefit, but still sound advice.

Ifs repeatedly said labours spending plans were much better for the economy than Tories.

It’s makes no difference to me anyways. I don’t care what happens to the economy if my daughters don’t have rights.

That's something of a change of tune by the IMF. But I would stand by them not really being anything other than a promoter of globalism, so while I think the Conservatives could stand to change their public spending approach, it's not really like I love what Labour does either.

And I think it may be possible to get the CP to move on some of these things, whereas I see no hope of getting teh LP, or any of the others, to move on identity politics or freedom of thought or any of those things. And I think those are in some ways more foundational to liberal democracy. SO really the gender problem writ larger - if those things are lost having a say in party policy isn't all that likely.

Like I’ve said repeatedly I’m a single issue voter and I think nothing matters more.

It was in a reply to a pp comment, that’s all. Ot. But I do think if the Uber right wing imf tells Tories their spending plans are too right wing and will damage the economy, there’s something going seriously wrong. Tories clearly didn’t care at the time.

However, I’d rather the economy dies a death than women legal definition remain adult human female. Explained why repeatedly up thread. We can’t ever address any women’s issues ever, including reversing self id, if self id comes in. It’s irreparable. And I’d vote in bloody trump or worse to keep self id out.

@JustAnotherPoster00

Looking forward to the bewildered reaction of YouTuber Owen Jones when his political party of choice loses yet again because of their failure to grasp that the Twitter echo-chamber of today is due to the 2018 Tumblr porn exodus and has no relation to UK voting reality.

Are you also looking forward to the bewildered reaction of disabled people as further rights, dignities and financial support is removed from them as well?

A lot of the disabled people who take their own life because of the treatment and contempt they receive from the DWP and their service providers are also women

Just you seem determined to twist this thread off topic.

Why not answer my replies to your posts? How can we ever assess issues that disadvantage women when we can’t ever say what a woman is? How can we measure the inequality faced by women if the category of women includes men? How will we address lack of women in stem when many self id women work in stem? And so on& so on.

It is fucking impossible. As a feminist I can never vote Tory. Their underlying principles harm the most vulnerable in society, especially women.
Their stance on self-ID, I hugely welcome. Yet it does not come from a position of giving a toss about women's rights but rather comes from a place of small mindedness and intolerance. This strengthens the view point that gender critical feminists are bigots which in the long term harms the cause.
As I care about the cause than pretty much anything I could never vote for them but would rather spoil my vote.

I won't vote Tory, but I also won't vote for reality-denying parties who think they can guilt-trip me into being Everybody Else's Mum whilst pretending they don't know what a woman is.

Workers Party? Worth having a look at their policies - they are deff GC from a class analysis POV too

Only problem is they are small and not going to field candidents in all areas, but where they do worth looking at

As a feminist I can never vote Tory. Their underlying principles harm the most vulnerable in society, especially women. Their stance on self-ID, I hugely welcome. Yet it does not come from a position of giving a toss about women's rights but rather comes from a place of small mindedness and intolerance. This strengthens the view point that gender critical feminists are bigots which in the long term harms the cause.

This. Please don't vote Tory if you're doing so because you think it'll make things better for women.

[quote JustAnotherPoster00]And dont forget, the Tories are on your side even if they blocked the 'upskirting bill'

www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2018/06/meet-christopher-chope-tory-mp-who-blocked-upskirting-ban[/quote]
Christoper Cope objected on the grounds that the bill hadn't had enough scrutiny - it might have been poorly drafted and had unintended consequences. Maybe he is wrong, maybe he is right, maybe he is just an out and out misogynist.

The Tory party responded by making a government bill and it became a crime in 2019 in the Voyeurism (Offences) Act 2019

@JustAnotherPoster00

Looking forward to the bewildered reaction of YouTuber Owen Jones when his political party of choice loses yet again because of their failure to grasp that the Twitter echo-chamber of today is due to the 2018 Tumblr porn exodus and has no relation to UK voting reality.

Are you also looking forward to the bewildered reaction of disabled people as further rights, dignities and financial support is removed from them as well?

A lot of the disabled people who take their own life because of the treatment and contempt they receive from the DWP and their service providers are also women

Then take it up with LP why they are so determined to destroy womens rights.

It has take literally thousands of years for us to get to the point where women are on the cusp of being almost equal to men in society but we are not there yet.
Misogny is still rife in mens minds and it wont take much to put us back to the dark ages.
My feeling is that women as a sex class achieving equality and respect as human beings equal with men is a massive curve in human history that spans thousands of years, if genderism is allowed to dominate society at this stage and in the way the proponents of it want then all that progress is set back to some kind of dystopian nightmare where women are a sex resource used for breeding and entertainment, basically right back to where we were. If this sounds hyperbolic, this is already the reality in much of the world now so I really dont think it will take that much. OK it will have a western flavour and be 'sex positive' dontchanow but the actual power position will be exactly the same in the end.
Thats why, as someone brought up a full on Marxist, cries at Billy Bragg songs, did not join the LP until Corbin as it was not left enough, knows the words of more than one Woody Gutherie song, I will be voting Tory in the next GE and every other one after that until the other parties can name a woman as a woman.

if genderism is allowed to dominate society at this stage and in the way the proponents of it want then all that progress is set back to some kind of dystopian nightmare where women are a sex resource used for breeding and entertainment, basically right back to where we were. If this sounds hyperbolic, this is already the reality in much of the world now so I really dont think it will take that much. OK it will have a western flavour and be 'sex positive' dontchanow but the actual power position will be exactly the same in the end.

Thanks for putting into words what I've been thinking.

What the TRAs want is the same power dynamic as in Afghanistan between the sexes. Where men get to define women entirely and what they can do and whether or not they have any safety or agency.

Already we see that TWAW but actual biological women aren't allowed to self-ID and are labelled as 'cis' without any consultation about their inner gender identity (I'm agender by the way not 'cis').

As a feminist I can never vote Tory. Their underlying principles harm the most vulnerable in society, especially women. Their stance on self-ID, I hugely welcome. Yet it does not come from a position of giving a toss about women's rights but rather comes from a place of small mindedness and intolerance. This strengthens the view point that gender critical feminists are bigots which in the long term harms the cause.

Also this. I've been watching the Blair/Brown documentary just finished on the BBC, and what it reminded me was a. how much Labour actually achieved whilst in power, and b. that there was a time when politicians were serious, credible human beings - the contrast between Gordon B and David Cameron/George Osborne at the end of the series was crushing. So, I'm hoping that sense returns to the Labour Party, I'm afraid.

I vote conservative now and not ashamed of it either. This is my key issue. Its not even just about self-ID. Its what the fact there is even a debate about this says about the status of women in society.