TRA understanding of 'what is a woman'?

[Jamdown123]

Hi all,

I'm really trying to understand this. Can anyone point me to a resource that explains what the TRA definition of what a woman is?

I've tried so hard to find one, and I can't.

@Datun

Oh my God, I couldn't get past the first link!

A woman who can't give birth is no less of a woman than a man.

In all conscience, I can't even look at the rest.

Absolutely unhinged, ideological, politically charged misogyny

Julia Long debate is worth watching! Clear, calm and lucid. At least, parts of it are.

There are no words for the garbage that this thread has just exposed me to. I have been looking at these threads for a while and been participating in a bit of armchair activism, but this is the first time I’ve been reduced to tears from frustration. I think it’s the inability of these people to understand logic that’s tipped me over.

The point of words, of language, is to identify things, so we can communicate. We have a shared understanding of a concept.

For the word woman, we have a meaning for that, and as Kathleen Stock says, there is still a use for it.

There are plenty of other words that can be used for people’s feelings. It may be tricky to find the right ones to accurately communicate those feelings, but you can’t just use the word woman. That’s not what it means.

And for God’s sake, the circular references. A basic compiler can point out that error. If you write a piece of code with a circular reference then the whole program is meaningless and cannot function correctly.

I am going to go and find a corner in which I can hide until this is all over.

so glad to find this thread, you are my people!

ArabellaScott

Thank you for those. Men, and women, floundering helplessly, to identify who the fuck it is they are meant to be campaigning on behalf of!!

I mean, I shouldn't laugh. But honest to fucking God these people are claiming to be ... leaders, politicians, spokes people, humans...

... I have no words.

Oh wait, yes, fucking wankers.

Remember Oliver Sacks? His book was the man who mistook his wife for a hat.

https://tankmuseumshop.org/products/the-man-who-mistook-his-wife-for-a-hat?variant=38148745199807&currency=GBP&utmmedium=producttsync&utmsource=google&utmmcontent=sagorganic&utmmcampaign=sagorganic&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlZuZlLPP8wIVkcLtCh1XRAiGEAQYAiABEgKMjPD_BwE

Julia Long debate is worth watching! Clear, calm and lucid. At least, parts of it are. smile

Oh yes. Julia long is a positively Savlon like voice of reason. Her vocal balm soothes my injury, every time.

So transwomen want to be the only people who call themselves a woman whereas women have to call themselves ciswomen. It's like Alice in bloody Wonderland.

@DontAskIDontKnow
"And for God’s sake, the circular references."

It's a feature, not a bug... Very post-modern. Think 1984 Newspeak: war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength...

Confused folks are much easier to control and reprogram.

I have a horrible feeling some posters are thinking my first definition (very first post) is what I think. It really isn't.

@SapphosRock

Most recently I've had TRAs ask me how I would feel to wake up in a male body. They think I would 'know' I'm really a woman.

(I can't say for sure but I think I would just feel like me and would happen to be male).

What a ridiculous thing for them to say. If we accept that a woman is someone who feels like a woman and man is someone who feels like a man, then how can you wake up in a male body as without a mind to choose an identity the body cannot be male.

Though that said, if I woke up with a winkie, I'd feel like a man given that for me, like most people, man and woman just refer to chromosomes and secondary sexual characteristics.

I have no idea what feeling like a woman feels like. Like most women.

If anyone woke up in a different body they would freak the fuck out and possibly lose their marbles immediately.

Is what would actually happen!

This all fucks me off. Males pontificating about what is a woman. As they have done for thousands of sodding years. We're so... Ineffable. Mysterious. A different species! Unknowable. Etc etc.

Nope sorry. Woman is word for adult human female. Until about 10 mins ago when a group wanted to redefine it for their own reasons.

Plus. I'm a feminist because I always wanted to be seen as a PERSON first. Not a girl/ woman first.

And now all this time women being forced to argue all this nonsense. It's so regressive.

I was listening to the Nolan podcasts yesterday. They interviewed a non-binary person who said that they did not think about people's genitals when they fancied someone as they didn't mind what they had. It made me think that one of the big problems in this ideology is that TRA are making a whole load of assumptions about what other people think, feel and believe. I have never thought about someone's genitals when I fancy them. I just happen to have only fancied men. I can't explain that but there are undoubtedly some good scientific theories about that (pheromones or something?). It honestly sounded like they thought non-binary, non pansexual people were going around thinking about people's private parts all the time. I'm all up for young people pushing the boundaries and coming up with new ideas but I thought perhaps there is something wrong with our education system if they are not able to actually make sense of what others are actually saying. The non-binary person also said that sometimes they feel a more masculine energy and sometimes a more feminine energy which I thought was a horrid thing to say. I'm not happy for any sort of 'energy' to be claimed by either sex. What a damaging old-fashioned thing to say.

I think it’s the inability of these people to understand logic that’s tipped me over.

Me too. Out of all the effects of this ideology, the thing I most can't get over about it is not the treatment of feminists, lesbians and women and girls in general (maybe because we're used to that kind of shit), but the sheer, obvious nonsense and blatant fiction behind their arguments.

@lazylinguist

I think it’s the inability of these people to understand logic that’s tipped me over.

Me too. Out of all the effects of this ideology, the thing I most can't get over about it is not the treatment of feminists, lesbians and women and girls in general (maybe because we're used to that kind of shit), but the sheer, obvious nonsense and blatant fiction behind their arguments.

Me three. It actually really amusing at times. Proper flat earther level of logic.

A few months ago, I saw a YouTube interview with a non-binary person. They said that some days they identified as male, some days as female and some days as neither (I know this isn’t how all non-binary people feel).

I’m not doubting that these feelings are genuine, even though I can’t imagine feeling that way. What puzzles me is that if your gender identity changes from day to day, surely your sex is the reliable constant? Especially if this is unambiguous to others.

Even 'non-binary' people know what a woman is really, they just pretend not too.
Take the sickeningly right-on Gal-dem, for example. They are women and 'non-binary' people of colour, but co-incidentally all the 'non-binary' people are of the cunty type, none of the dick-possessing kind.
They don't want any blokes involved - as is their right - and they're not having them no matter how they 'identify'.

I do wonder whether avatars and all those filters and photoshops and being able to play computer games as various characters and virtual reality have together somehow eroded people's sense of who they are and encouraged them to believe they are infinitely malleable in life as well as cyberspace.

The number of animé characters representing people on Twitter must be indicative of something!

As GC writers like Julia Long have put it, this really is a war on women and forcing them to be more diminished while men take up yet more space, even in pretending to be women (and taking their one words to describe themselves).
I say we all just start calling ourselves men, refusing anyone seeking medical help for male issues calling themselves men and demanding a pay rise.

A Twitter TRA has had a go at defining 'woman'!

twitter.com/setoacnna/status/1456276885046915079?s=20

GCs: Define woman
Me: Woman is a socially constructed gender category
GCs: NO!!!! That's not what I meant...
Me: Woman is a socially constructed gender category

So it is all about social stereotypes. A woman isn't a female, it's any person who 'acts like a woman'. A female person who doesn't 'act like a woman' is presumably not a woman. How progressive! Oh, wait.

Pfft. We know that's what you meant, Ann, we just think it's as wrong as it's always been.

A woman is a human with female gametes. A man is a human with male gametes. Identify as a fuckin circus clown if you like but your still a slave to your own biology like everyone else.

another TRA: Tell me how you know you are a woman or a man, without resorting gender stereotypes, your sex assigned at birth, or body parts or lack thereof. You can't do it any better than a trans person. "I just know."

twitter.com/Susan_Larson_TN/status/1456284103477809161?s=20

"Define woman without referring to biological sex." That's your job, TRAs.

*you're

NotTerf-

Looked at the tweets.

This is a sleight of hand, as so much of this is.

Redefine woman as a social category. State it's always been a social category.
Boom! Done.

If anyone says ???
You can ignore them. Or tell them they're an essentialist. And therefore a right wing regressive evil person who wants to reduce women to their body parts...
(And then write something about vagina owners...).

Women are whatever men say they are.

And any women who disagree/don't comply are not 'real women'.

So dull.