TRA understanding of 'what is a woman'?

[Jamdown123]

Hi all,

I'm really trying to understand this. Can anyone point me to a resource that explains what the TRA definition of what a woman is?

I've tried so hard to find one, and I can't.

Much more interesting to ask why it's so important to a group of people that the universally known and frankly banal definition of men and women be changed, and why if we all agree that sex and gender are different things, it is still so difficult to separate them in practice.

"Women are multifaceted, intergenerational, international. They are limitless, formless"

... Is there any chance they're mixed us up with ghosts?

@SapphosRock

Most recently I've had TRAs ask me how I would feel to wake up in a male body. They think I would 'know' I'm really a woman.

(I can't say for sure but I think I would just feel like me and would happen to be male).

The thing is, if I woke up in a male body tomorrow, I'd still have had x years' experience of having a female body.

A better question is 'what would be different if you'd been born into a male body'. I'm sure some things about my personality would be the same as now, but I'd almost certainly be taller, stronger, more physically confident, have slightly worse a-level and degree results but be more senior at work and be paid more.

I don't entirely see how this helps me understand trans people.

Re the spoon comments: I have had mentally ill patients with fixed delusions, who identified as unusual things. One was firmly convinced that he was an android.
Strangely, neither I nor my colleagues felt we should “validate” him, call him a robot, or offer him WD40 to lubricate his joints. We sectioned him for psychiatric treatment. (antipsychotics and ECT). With resulting clinical improvement. I suppose that was “literal violence”.

No doubt. And there's the parallel with anorexia/body dysmorphia too. Should doctors validate anorexic people's feeling that they're fat, and encourage them to go on a diet?

@lazylinguist Exactly. And there's a whole load of things women have to fight to get done to their own bodies (masectomies for back pain, hysterectomy for medical reasons) that TRAs think should be available without any "medical gatekeeping" if you are dysphoric.

(It's a rare example of GPs actually validating trans identities if you think of it - they are treating transmen as men, and thus allowed to decide to do things to their own bodies that us mere women need to check with our husbands.)

that TRAs think should be available without any "medical gatekeeping" if you are dysphoric.

Yes, although I do wonder what proportion of trans-identifying people are actually dysphoric (in the sense that they would be diagnosed as such by a genuine expert).

I think a lot of people think a woman is any person who isn't a stereotypical man. Those that can't possibly be real men, must be women. Because of course "real" men couldn't possibly be interested in feminine things .

According to tiktok it is beauty, apparently women are jealous of trans women because of their high beauty standard.

Apparently we are scared of the competition.

Tiktok is eye opening

According to tiktok it is beauty, apparently women are jealous of trans women because of their high beauty standard.

Yes, someone posted that gem on another thread recently! I genuinely laughed out loud - it's one of the most laughable concepts I've heard on the whole topic!

@Whitefire

A woman is anyone who says they are.

So any man can dress up as a woman and go into female only places? No thank you.

Beauty?
Well that's me out then. I'm fugly.

A trans women replied to the comment ‘I am a radical feminist when it comes to women, you are not a woman’
With ‘why do I get period symptoms then?’

The general consensus I’ve seen on this is that trans women get a bit offended over period talk because they obviously don’t go through the menstrual cycle.

Tiktok is weird, but really eye opening on these topics.
I didn’t know some trans women get ‘symptoms’ whatever that means, since many women don’t get symptoms on their period at all.

@lazylinguist

that TRAs think should be available without any "medical gatekeeping" if you are dysphoric.

Yes, although I do wonder what proportion of trans-identifying people are actually dysphoric (in the sense that they would be diagnosed as such by a genuine expert).

I think it's now transphobic to suggest all transpeople are dysphoric.

I think we might be in for a long wait for an answer to OPs question

The very fact that you’d ask the question is taken to be bad faith by true believers, so not much chance of a sensible answer.

Which is handy, because there isn’t one

I think it's now transphobic to suggest all transpeople are dysphoric.

Hmmm yes, I imagine it would be.

Another

And the American trans woman Andrea Long Chu insists that ‘femaleness is a universal sex defined by self-negation… [The] barest essentials [of femaleness] are an open mouth, an expectant asshole, blank, blank eyes’.

There's loads more in similar vein. Can't be bothered to remember and find on Google.

How women is defined is individual to each trans woman. Is regarding I've concluded. It is whatever they personally see it as, IE, what they are transitioning for.

@TheGallopingGourmet

So if I say I am a cat does that mean I am a cat?

I would like to identify as a cat, then I could sleep all day and not have to work!

I find it entertaining to read and listen to all these laughably shite definitions of 'woman'. The level of utter bullshit they are willing to spout is just astonishing.

From the unbelievably fucking thick:
A woman is anyone who identifies as a woman

To Shon Fayes 'shifting constellations'

To the UN's 'women are formless'.

I mean, come the fuck on.

Although the 'getting fucked is female because funked is what female is' quote from Andrea Long Chu and the similar sorts of quotes are not quite so entertaining.

“And the American trans woman Andrea Long Chu insists that ‘femaleness is a universal sex defined by self-negation… [The] barest essentials [of femaleness] are an open mouth, an expectant asshole, blank, blank eyes’.”

I was going to post this too. It’s one of the most shocking things I’ve read since I got into this (and that’s saying a lot).

@NiceGerbil

Another

And the American trans woman Andrea Long Chu insists that ‘femaleness is a universal sex defined by self-negation… [The] barest essentials [of femaleness] are an open mouth, an expectant asshole, blank, blank eyes’.

Ugh, that's describing a sex doll, not a human being.

Dh just patted me on the head and said, "you're formless. I love that about you."

Very straightforward

If you are a woman You have xx chromosomes

Sorry to hijack OP but can we also try and find out what 'living as a woman' means. I know many mumsnetters, like me, are stumped by this so it would be good to understand. Of course it might only be those people who decide and handout grc's so we may never know however it's worth a try. I believe it involves names on gas bills/general bills, make up, dresses but I'm 100% sure.