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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kathleen Stock has resigned

380 replies

nevernomore · 28/10/2021 17:13

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/kathleen-stock-resigns-from-universuty-of-sussex-after-trans-rights-row-h0pns6lds

I wish she hadn't. Bullies should not be allowed to win. It just emboldens them.

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MidsomerMurmurs · 29/10/2021 10:42

@BraveBananaBadge

Try it in a private browsing window if you've used up all your freebies littlebrowndog.

It's by Stephen Daisley and it's very good, even down to a positive mention of Glinner's contributions which is rare enough itself!

Yes - opening a private browsing window will get you past most of the “you have two free articles” websites by resetting your article count as it were.

It’s a good article. Stephen Daisley regularly writes this sort of thing and he gets the Scottish context too (re Marion).

Re Kathleen, this was pretty apt:
“It’s difficult not to consider professor Stock’s resignation and observe that the finest minds at Sussex University have resigned all at once”

Bloodybridget · 29/10/2021 10:44

I'm furious that the university is now claiming to have supported Prof Stock, and saying they do not allow bullying and harassment, when this is patently untrue. It does sound as if they agreed a severance package. But if KS does want to continue working as an academic, what institution will have the courage to employ her?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 29/10/2021 10:48

This comment from Stephen Daisley in the Spectator article that littlbrowndog linked was very telling:

But the dominant, mainstream mode of trans activism prioritises censorship, bullying, intimidation and institutional and linguistic capture. These things have to be fought because they are destructive of open, pluralistic societies.

RoyalCorgi · 29/10/2021 10:49

Strong stuff from Stephen Daisley. I love this:

"You can try to force women like Marion Millar and Kathleen Stock to say the catechism, whether through law, social ostracisation, the threat of dismissal or the removal of their communication platforms. You can disrupt their meetings, bawl obscenities outside their conferences, hide their books in bookshops, run them off campus, and petition every brand with a Twitter account to disassociate from them. Some will break under the pressure but the sight of them doing so will only fortify the will of other."

chilling19 · 29/10/2021 11:06

Sorry to hear that Kathleen felt forced to resign. However, now she is free to say what she wants so look forward to that. Also hope she got. BIG severance package. Solidarity Kathleen. 👊

Worldgonecrazy · 29/10/2021 11:16

@MrsMadderRose

Maybe the problem with a lot of the Youth of Today does boil down to the fact that they haven't seen The Young Ones and realised that being like Rik makes you look like a twat.
Grin

Though I’m sure watching the casual anarchic violence of The Young Ones would be too triggering, especially as Neil, having long hair, is so obviously a transwoman……

sashh · 29/10/2021 11:22

@NutellaEllaElla

I'm so sad about this although I understand the reasons for her decision completely. I hope she can recover from the stress of it. Shame on Sussex uni for not doing more to investigate and expel the "students" who absolutely terrorised her.
I actually think that now Prof Stock is out of the picture (and I really believe she shouldn't be) the uni will be able to take action against the students.

Whether they will is another matter.

secular111 · 29/10/2021 11:31

Higher and further education minister Michelle Donelan said: "It is absolutely appalling that the toxic environment at the University of Sussex has made it untenable for Professor Kathleen Stock to continue in her position there. No academic should ever have to fear for their personal safety.

"The sustained campaign of harassment and intimidation she has faced is deplorable and the situation should never have got this far."
Kathleen Stock: University of Sussex free speech row professor quits

I think the chance that Sussex Seminary will get much of a sniff of the £22 billion research budget from the UK Research and Innovation and the National Academies fund is now somewhat reduced; it can't be trusted as an educational institution able to pursue independent and innovative thinking.

ScreamingMeMeSawUs · 29/10/2021 11:34

@MargaritaPie

"a female academic has been hounded out of her job by a bunch of aggressive and intimidating students"

Or "a professor affiliated with the LGB-Alliance caused so much concern amongst students many protests and complaints were made"

How one chooses to put things into words does make a difference in how it comes across.

As does how one chooses to express their concerns.
littlbrowndog · 29/10/2021 11:40

Thanks banana will try that

Jux · 29/10/2021 11:42

I hope this leads to a new, brighter, freeer adn happier chapter for her. What she's been put through by idiotic students who should have been told 'no' far more often is shocking; I sincerely hope those who put them up to this and encouraged them all get their comeuppances in full and more. I am sick to death of RWM pulling the strings behind this disgraceful movement fuelled entirely by misogyny and an unquenchable lust for power.

MrsMadderRose · 29/10/2021 11:44

Though I’m sure watching the casual anarchic violence of The Young Ones would be too triggering, especially as Neil, having long hair, is so obviously a transwoman……

Oh god you're right. Even if they did watch it, they wouldn't get it and would earnestly explain to us oldies that it was ahead of its time and was really about the persecution of a TW!

Carriemac · 29/10/2021 12:17

I hope Sussex Uni lose their Athena swan ranking

CharlieParley · 29/10/2021 12:35

@MrsOvertonsWindow

This comment from Stephen Daisley in the Spectator article that littlbrowndog linked was very telling:

But the dominant, mainstream mode of trans activism prioritises censorship, bullying, intimidation and institutional and linguistic capture. These things have to be fought because they are destructive of open, pluralistic societies.

The doctrine of gender identity is only one branch of critical theories and critical social justice. If you dig into the thinkers behind all of this and read their books, it becomes obvious that this is their modus operandi precisely because they do not believe people who disagree with them should be able to exercise their civil rights like everyone else in a democracy.

They define intolerance as tolerance, authoritarian behaviour is framed as democratic and those they disagree with must be denied freedom of thought, speech, association or assembly, lest they impede the progress of their movement.

There's a reason why their undemocratic, authoritarian tactics are so widespread and, as Stephen Daisley rightly says, form the mainstream mode of trans activism - because they know they are right and their aims are pure and just. And in the fight for the pure and just aims of this critical social justice movement, the ends absolutely justify the means they employ.

ChattyLion · 29/10/2021 12:58

I wish her very well for the future. Absolutely chilling that it has come to this though that she’d potentially lose a livelihood over not being a liar. It’s such a damning failure of university and trades union leadership- and even though Adam Tickell’s statement to staff seemed solid, hitting the right notes- what is actually happening to the perps of the harassment?

I saw that this story is front page of the Times.. and the Guardian. Hmm Would love to think that the tide is turning there after all the Guardian have done to build this anti-woman, anti-lesbian climate.

I also noticed that Tickell’s letter to staff announcing her resignation mentioned Stock’s PC of sex, but not the relevant PC of sexual orientation- which seemed a bit of an oversight given the obliterating implications of this dogma for lesbians. I hope this won’t be lost in the protection of free speech issues. All the impacts of this are important.

missfliss · 29/10/2021 13:33

Well as little as it means as
an individual gesture I've shared my support for her on my Facebook feed.

I work in Brighton and was educated at Brighton uni ( not Sussex) - I've not said much on the topic generally as my workplace will have a fair few that agree with the Sussex uni student bullies - and I'm a bit scared.

But it's time to stick my head over the parapet.

Oh, and I've ordered her book. From Amazon mind, not Brighton Waterstones...

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 29/10/2021 13:46

That's correct she does, and if she's a Uni professor then students also have the right to speak up, protest and complain if they have any concerns.

Odd. Because speaking up in this case includes pissing up her office door, threatening her specifically, doxxing her, a sustained campaign demanding her employers stifle her, sack her, masked men, flares, effigies, concerns from the police amounting to her requiring fucking security guards to be able to go to work safely!

Something you so sweetly dismiss as speaking up Do your REALLY think all of that is fine?

Oh, do try to keep your answer on the question asked. No sudden introduction of of unicorns, squirrels etc!

nevernomore · 29/10/2021 14:48

The doctrine of gender identity is only one branch of critical theories and critical social justice. If you dig into the thinkers behind all of this and read their books, it becomes obvious that this is their modus operandi precisely because they do not believe people who disagree with them should be able to exercise their civil rights like everyone else in a democracy

They define intolerance as tolerance, authoritarian behaviour is framed as democratic and those they disagree with must be denied freedom of thought, speech, association or assembly, lest they impede the progress of their movement

All of this.

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Maerchentante · 29/10/2021 15:01

Raquel Rosario Sanchez tweetet a picture of the "statement" the bullies put out.

twitter.com/8RosarioSanchez/status/1453859853072470018

Read the whole thing and it reminded me a bit of the language that was used by the Baader-Meinhof Group (Red Army Faction). Even though I was born just after they had their biggest impact, they were still ever present in the news and on wanted posters in Germany.

There are, imho, some similarities and I fear what these TRA radicals will do and how far they will go to silence dissenters and perceived "enemies".

CatherinaJTV · 29/10/2021 15:06

I think the chance that Sussex Seminary will get much of a sniff of the £22 billion research budget from the UK Research and Innovation and the National Academies fund is now somewhat reduced; it can't be trusted as an educational institution able to pursue independent and innovative thinking.

What a nasty sentiment. As if a random prof in, say, biology or chemistry at Sussex had any role to play in this whole affair. The idea that government would or even should be using research funds to keep universities politically in line is horrendous.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 29/10/2021 15:09

What a nasty sentiment. As if a random prof in, say, biology or chemistry at Sussex had any role to play in this whole affair. The idea that government would or even should be using research funds to keep universities politically in line is horrendous.

Yeah! That's the price those professors, the faculty, organisation and student body pay for not standing up to bullies. There will always be repercussions. And it won't be the gfovernment, It will be serious research facilities who don't want to pump millions of research dollar into a faculty that is discredited, morally bankrupt, ethically suspect!

In other words, it's business. Not government policy!

FlyingOink · 29/10/2021 15:09

She has been tremendously brave for such a long time. Although it's a shame she had to quit, I can't blame her. No protection from police, campus security, or her colleagues.

If that kind of thing happened in my workplace I'd be offering to car share and chaperone. It's disgusting that nobody at Sussex seemed to have bothered. That would make me want to quit too, on top of the nonsense from UCU.

AssassinatedBeauty · 29/10/2021 15:11

Interesting what @CatherinaJTV thinks is a "nasty sentiment" worth commenting on...

CatherinaJTV · 29/10/2021 15:22

Mann, Märchentante, Du solltest Dich was schämen...

Read the whole thing and it reminded me a bit of the language that was used by the Baader-Meinhof Group (Red Army Faction). Even though I was born just after they had their biggest impact, they were still ever present in the news and on wanted posters in Germany.

The RAF was a terrorist organisation that abducted and killed bankers and politicians. Nothing of that sort has happened here and it is total hyperbole to compare a strongly worded statement with that. You may not know, because you didn't live through that time (consciously). I did.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 29/10/2021 15:23

It is isn't it?

It doesn't matter how often anyone posts a list of things that have happened to Prof Stock - starting with some man/men pissing up her office door and ending with her needing security to go to work - posters like Katy and Margi just don't seem to read it! It's like they just can't see it, three wise monkey style!